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Author Topic: my first powercut in 9 years  (Read 15664 times)
billi
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« on: September 10, 2016, 06:54:56 PM »

....not taking care as much as i should , but  this morning inverter shut down .... started the  very reliable  350 euro petrol generator , and  my victron inverter chargers , did , for a strange reason  not connect to the generator , as well the victrons  led indicator lights  told me that   battery voltage is too low to connect , but battery voltage was far beyond 26 volts  (from PV and hydro)

Got me thinking .....  not sure yet whats the problem is ... but i guess its my corroded battery poles .... that does not allow   heavy discharge  or charge


Any help ?   unscrew and sand/wire brush  i guess ?  and put grease on ?

Thanks folks



* IMG_0044.jpg (322.73 KB, 1378x911 - viewed 731 times.)
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1.6 kw and 2.4 kw   PV array  , Outback MX 60 and FM80 charge controller  ,24 volt 1600 AH Battery ,6 Kw Victron inverter charger, 1.1 kw high head hydro turbine as a back up generator , 5 kw woodburner, 36 solar tubes with 360 l water tank, 1.6 kw  windturbine
camillitech
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« Reply #1 on: September 10, 2016, 08:15:05 PM »

Aye Billi, that would be a good start but use Vaseline in preference to grease.  Try measuring the voltage at the inverter and see if it collapses as the inverter tries to connect. Also, I find an IR thermometer invaluable for this kind of problem and you can get one off 'Fleabay' for buttons, me I'm lucky I can also borrow a 3500 Fluke camera from work.





I like to go round all the local 'off grid' banks every now and then, picks up trouble before it happens.

It's also good for checking the dogs temperature  Cool

Good luck, Paul
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http://lifeattheendoftheroad.wordpress.com/

'Off grid' since 1985,  Proven 2.5kW, Proven 6kW direct heating, SI6.OH, 800ah Rolls, 4.75kW PV ,4xTS45, Lister HR2 12kW, , Powerspout pelton, Stream Engine turgo, 60 x Navitron toobs and a 1500lt store. Outback VFX3048 and 950ah forklifts for backup,
Countrypaul
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« Reply #2 on: September 10, 2016, 08:34:56 PM »

You can also get special sprays nowadays that are supposed work much better than grease of vaseline (probably cost alot more too), I haven't tried them but know some who have and they seem to think the spray is very worthwhile.
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« Reply #3 on: September 10, 2016, 08:53:44 PM »

It doesn't look as if those terminals have ever been greased to keep out moisture/acid vapour. If you've got that much corrosion on the outside of the terminals/ cable lugs then the chances are that the inside of the crimp of the lug on to the cable is not much better. Measure your voltages at a clean point on the battery terminals when on load and again on the input to the inverter (also on load) to find out where the High resistance joint is. You might need a new set of cables as well as cleaning up the terminals.
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biff
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« Reply #4 on: September 10, 2016, 10:29:32 PM »

  I wish I could help Billi,
       I got a feeling that it is not your Bank or terminals, Have you got a spare inverter or could you borrow one.
     I think it is a short inside the inverter which is pulling down the voltage
                                                                         Biff
  nb ,,, If your weather has been anything like mine,then it is very likely moisture related.
« Last Edit: September 10, 2016, 10:36:30 PM by biff » Logged

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billi
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« Reply #5 on: September 11, 2016, 12:10:14 AM »

thanks guys  ,   positive 75mm2 cable is very warm   when charging or discharging

So i guess Biff , i try to clean the contacts first  , do not think my inverter(s) have a problem







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1.6 kw and 2.4 kw   PV array  , Outback MX 60 and FM80 charge controller  ,24 volt 1600 AH Battery ,6 Kw Victron inverter charger, 1.1 kw high head hydro turbine as a back up generator , 5 kw woodburner, 36 solar tubes with 360 l water tank, 1.6 kw  windturbine
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« Reply #6 on: September 11, 2016, 08:44:37 AM »

have you got the usb dongle to talk to the victron? you can run diagnostics.
if you have got the usb mk2 connector make sure it is unplugged after use, if not it can switch off the inverter and stop it coming on again, happened to us while i was in hospital.
also if you look at victron software it should be able to see a high dc ripple.
but i would remove and clean all connectors and Vaseline them whatever.
good luck

steve
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1600w PV main array at 24v, excide 2v 1000a forklift cells now x 2, 320w PV secondary array at 12v. Enfield 1944 ex RAF 5.6kw diesel genset (now in pieces, big ends gone), Petter AC1 28v diesel charging set at 2.8kw.
1kw wind turbine.
26kw wood stove back boiler to underfloor heating and dhw
billi
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« Reply #7 on: September 11, 2016, 09:20:28 AM »

thanks  , yes i have the Victron  software and  connection device to communicate with a computer  , did not work yesterday  , but will try again today with other lab-top computer

I have two victron Muliplus 3000 watt in parallel  and it was configured  by me via the software  and computer to  about 35 Amps charging with the generator on the AC in ,  so  intotal 2x35 A =70Ax 24 Volt =1680 watt coming from my generator for charging .... have to get the computer connected ,  and my brain  back to 2014 standards   ( time i  last fine tuned the settings ) ....  whistlie

At the moment i switch one of the Victrons of (cause petrol generator is kicking in and out , controlled by the Victrons)   so only half the power and charge  possible ....  ,  not sure if iam guessing right , but  that seems to me that the power from the generator cannot travel fast enough into the battery  , so the victron kicks the generator out .... (hope someone understands me  Grin )

Battery pole cleaning first .... than will see if the powerflow gets better  Smiley

Thanks
Billi







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1.6 kw and 2.4 kw   PV array  , Outback MX 60 and FM80 charge controller  ,24 volt 1600 AH Battery ,6 Kw Victron inverter charger, 1.1 kw high head hydro turbine as a back up generator , 5 kw woodburner, 36 solar tubes with 360 l water tank, 1.6 kw  windturbine
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« Reply #8 on: September 11, 2016, 09:55:27 AM »

Good luck Billi,
              Hopefully it is just some little thing,like a bad connection,
   You know, It might even be the AVR in that Generator,?
                                   Biff
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« Reply #9 on: September 11, 2016, 09:57:13 AM »

when you say paralel, do you mean they are connected together? if yes one may be causing other not to come on, my friend had this setup but we altered it as we found you could not use power saving mode.
2014, you will be asked to update software and firmware i guess.
have you measured dc voltage to see if it changes or is odd.
victron man said try disconnecting all and leaving 5 mins. but that is when i found leaving usb converter connected stops the multiplus booting. on the early multiplus there is a reset-able pop out fuse i think.
goodluck

steve

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1600w PV main array at 24v, excide 2v 1000a forklift cells now x 2, 320w PV secondary array at 12v. Enfield 1944 ex RAF 5.6kw diesel genset (now in pieces, big ends gone), Petter AC1 28v diesel charging set at 2.8kw.
1kw wind turbine.
26kw wood stove back boiler to underfloor heating and dhw
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« Reply #10 on: September 11, 2016, 10:09:22 AM »

in inverter mode is it ok? just not working on generator? if yes then low/high volts as biff says avr, or waveform not good if rotating diode type generator could be a short diode.

steve
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1600w PV main array at 24v, excide 2v 1000a forklift cells now x 2, 320w PV secondary array at 12v. Enfield 1944 ex RAF 5.6kw diesel genset (now in pieces, big ends gone), Petter AC1 28v diesel charging set at 2.8kw.
1kw wind turbine.
26kw wood stove back boiler to underfloor heating and dhw
billi
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« Reply #11 on: September 11, 2016, 03:23:28 PM »

I think the generator is fine , cause  even when he is off , the voltage is high enough during the day (PV)  but the inverter switches off  (happened only twice in 7 days but not when genni was running ) 

Yes they are paired  so two Victron  3000 Watt Muliplus  inverter chargers form a 6000 watt one ...


Yup i know that fuse in the victrons  , i dont touch the system  today , when the shops are open tommorrow  , i am in a better possition to get battery cables  cleaning  tools etc

My son will not be impressed if i leave him without a light tonite .... never mind the TV or the tablet charger  whistlie


Thanks guys




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1.6 kw and 2.4 kw   PV array  , Outback MX 60 and FM80 charge controller  ,24 volt 1600 AH Battery ,6 Kw Victron inverter charger, 1.1 kw high head hydro turbine as a back up generator , 5 kw woodburner, 36 solar tubes with 360 l water tank, 1.6 kw  windturbine
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« Reply #12 on: September 11, 2016, 05:21:36 PM »

Hi Billi,
The green on your lugs suggest to me they are bare copper. Tinned lugs are resistant to the verdigris and sulphates. Your bolts look victim to electrolysis...perhaps zinc galvanised of origin?...
Better position the cap vent facing away from the post. I'm not a fan of Vaseline...messy goo, holds dirt, I prefer cleaning as I go.

I'd start with a dremel wire wheel and PPE.
To go the whole hog it'd be new tinned lugs and tinned bolts, this might mean you can shorten the existing battery interconnects to re-terminate them cutting the old lugs off or it might mean a whole new set. In the case of a whole new set, heat shrink & flat bar; aluminium or copper are robust options.
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billi
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« Reply #13 on: September 15, 2016, 04:23:20 AM »

Biff , i guess u are right ..... could be my inverter  ....  , i could cry  had a smoke with him on Monday   Tongue ... , Generator is fine  , no lights flickering when direct connect to house ,  

I rang Victron in Holland , they used to have a helpline , but they told me i should contact  the supplier of my kit ...

the battery main disconnecting switch was smelling and i opened it , and it did look rotten .... bit puzzled right now , i have a cheap Kipoint 12 volt 3000 watt inverter spare for a test   , beside my other 3000 watt victron that i try to avoid to connect until i know more  , but need to form a 12 V battery  out of my 24  by 2 volt cells  or get a better plan  whistlie

still i think there is a issue  with the battery ... , so wont connect the Victron until i know more

One more question i have  ,  how much sparking is normal ? When one  un and re-screws battery terminals , i thought there is close to none usually  ....... i disconnected the positive of my bank  and tried to reconnect ....  , usually ther should be no spark , or ?

Thanks


 
« Last Edit: September 15, 2016, 04:28:34 AM by billi » Logged

1.6 kw and 2.4 kw   PV array  , Outback MX 60 and FM80 charge controller  ,24 volt 1600 AH Battery ,6 Kw Victron inverter charger, 1.1 kw high head hydro turbine as a back up generator , 5 kw woodburner, 36 solar tubes with 360 l water tank, 1.6 kw  windturbine
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« Reply #14 on: September 15, 2016, 08:53:03 AM »

Sad news indeed Billi but I think the problem still lies or was caused by those battery terminals/cables. Sorry mate but they're a fecking disgrace  Grin A regular scan with one of these http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Liqoo-Digital-LCD-Non-Contact-Infrared-Thermometer-Laser-IR-Point-50-to-380-/121829912352?hash=item1c5da0ef20:g:GaYAAOSw8-tWXqkO for 8.59 will save you a whole heap of grief in the future. Re the spark, yes you will get a big scary spark every time you connect your inverter, I feckin hate it and it scares the carp out of me, which is why you should have a proper switch (not that I do  Roll Eyes ) I have a small circuit breaker that I use just for charging the capacitors in the inverter. Once I've thrown that, then I connect the battery cables, it's wrong and bad practice I know but I've not come across a sensibly price DC switch yet. You should NOT get any spark at all, not even a tiny one if your bank is disconnected of all loads, inverter, PV, controllers etc.

I would be taking all those cables off and giving them a really good clean, soak the ends in vinegar, wash off and dry then check the resistance and replace any dodgy ends. After that I'd be checking individual cell voltages/SG and then re connecting your good Victron. Certainly wouldn't be reconfiguring to 12V unless you have any dodgy cells, though they may sort their self out with a good EQ once the connections are re done.

Good luck and keep us posted, Paul
« Last Edit: September 15, 2016, 09:10:25 AM by camillitech » Logged

http://lifeattheendoftheroad.wordpress.com/

'Off grid' since 1985,  Proven 2.5kW, Proven 6kW direct heating, SI6.OH, 800ah Rolls, 4.75kW PV ,4xTS45, Lister HR2 12kW, , Powerspout pelton, Stream Engine turgo, 60 x Navitron toobs and a 1500lt store. Outback VFX3048 and 950ah forklifts for backup,
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