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Author Topic: my first powercut in 9 years  (Read 15638 times)
Scruff
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« Reply #30 on: September 16, 2016, 04:41:58 PM »

Morning Paul  Grin,

Gorsh thanks for the generous offer, why I have the perfect home for it, I'd be much obliged. Let me know if there's anything I can do in return. PM on the way.

I have one of these as a use once* (*under full load; 1500A) isolator.
http://www.albrightinternational.com/wpcms/wp-content/uploads/2015/07/ED252-Catalogue-Sheet-v1-11-13-Electronic-Issue.pdf
It's double pole so I was going to wire my PV in on one pole and battery main bus conductor on thuther...I'm sure that's naughty but I want a single point of isolation that doesn't kill my solar controllers.
I found another solution involving contactors with a "first off, last on" RC filter on the PV contactor coil...bit bodgy but works, there's a difference of milli seconds but the contact bounce is a concern...or maybe it's not...
I wonder what the right way to do it is...other than manually isolate everything one at a time which I can do but I need a Mrs Scruff friendly solution.

methinks there's probably nothing wrong with your turbine regulation, probably just the switch mode on the supply confused it  

Interesting point, I'm not entirely sure of the specifics of thems SMPS's but often they accept 90VAC -260VAC, there's only 2 ways to kill them from the primary side either the supply was >260VAC or sensed 110VAC (inverter in idle perhaps) powered up the 110V side of the supply then the inverter woke and went 240V...just a theory.

You can check your turnip from the house Billi, Stick a DVM in a mains socket phase and neutral set to read AC Volts min/max. and check it for oddities.

If you want yer inverter to spark (just cos...no good reason to tbh) disconnect it from the AC side, then DC side, then turn the power button on to bleed the capacitor charge (good idea for servicing) then reconnect the DC side.


« Last Edit: September 16, 2016, 04:50:16 PM by Scruff » Logged
billi
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« Reply #31 on: September 17, 2016, 01:14:21 PM »

... Puh ,  got the  second Victron  connected today  , and  all seems to work fine  Smiley  ,  better mood now

wil have to find out if the btoken one is repairable...

thanks all

 



* IMG_0073.jpg (246.08 KB, 1378x1033 - viewed 367 times.)

* IMG_0072.jpg (325.6 KB, 1378x1837 - viewed 372 times.)
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1.6 kw and 2.4 kw   PV array  , Outback MX 60 and FM80 charge controller  ,24 volt 1600 AH Battery ,6 Kw Victron inverter charger, 1.1 kw high head hydro turbine as a back up generator , 5 kw woodburner, 36 solar tubes with 360 l water tank, 1.6 kw  windturbine
Scruff
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« Reply #32 on: September 17, 2016, 03:50:17 PM »

Time to invest in a desolder station Billi. Replace all the electrolytic caps in both units. You could benefit from an ESR meter but as it's a 9yo inverter I'd recommend replacing the lot as a matter of course. If you just do the one the magic smoke escaped from and the one beside it if it's as bulging as it looks from here, it'd probably have you back up and running for a limited time.

Oh and best isopropyl & q-tip the electrolytic krudd off the gubbins while yer at it.
« Last Edit: September 17, 2016, 03:53:14 PM by Scruff » Logged
eabadger
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« Reply #33 on: September 18, 2016, 12:49:38 PM »

if you use fluxclean after soldering the pcbs look factory fresh, it also cleans off crud and comes in a can with brush built in.
have you got any better pictures of faulty unit? do all the boards look ok? from your picture is that a large capacitor that has let go? could be as simple as replacing that if none of the small control part has fried.
do your victrons live above the batteries? mine do even though instructions say no, i am moving mine soon, man at victron says the gas from batteries is of course acidic and kills the inverters.
man at victron very helpful via email.

good luck.

steve
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1600w PV main array at 24v, excide 2v 1000a forklift cells now x 2, 320w PV secondary array at 12v. Enfield 1944 ex RAF 5.6kw diesel genset (now in pieces, big ends gone), Petter AC1 28v diesel charging set at 2.8kw.
1kw wind turbine.
26kw wood stove back boiler to underfloor heating and dhw
billi
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« Reply #34 on: September 18, 2016, 01:50:36 PM »

Thanks ,  i usually have a email and skype  conntact  with a main guy from Victron ,  but for the last couple of days , i was more buisy to get some sort of systhem working , insted of letting the generator run  constantly ..... ,  i will contact him  , he was very hepfull in the past ,
My battery is outside the shed  so no gas will contact the inverter ...

We probably can live with the one 3000 kva inverter , but sure  repairing the broken one would be a good plan ,  but  thats possibly  not a job i can do,  but i can find faults ,  i can make a better photo , and yes one of the blue capacitor in the top right cornrt of the broken went bust , and under the silver blade infront , there are more of them , i had 2  times smoke coming out  of the unit .... so hopefully there is another one fryed and not other not so obvious elements ....

I can sent the unit to very skilled guy in Germany he repairs inverter and chargecontollers (have a broken Mppt 60 A one) , have to find out about shipping ...

I possibley buy one of those Taiwan PiP inverter charger with inbuilt MPPT controler as a emergency unit   for a 3000 watt version one pay under 600

Anyway

Talk later

Billi


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1.6 kw and 2.4 kw   PV array  , Outback MX 60 and FM80 charge controller  ,24 volt 1600 AH Battery ,6 Kw Victron inverter charger, 1.1 kw high head hydro turbine as a back up generator , 5 kw woodburner, 36 solar tubes with 360 l water tank, 1.6 kw  windturbine
Scruff
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« Reply #35 on: September 18, 2016, 06:27:52 PM »

Electrolytic capacitors have a finite service life Billi and 9 years is good long service. I doubt your working inverter is far behind your poorly one given that they are a tandem, hence my advise to recap both units. It's a simple but time consuming job, well worth it all the same. Perhaps your electronics surgeon might give you a discount for all the work you are bringing him if you ask about servicing the second unit after the first returns.
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Tombo
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« Reply #36 on: September 19, 2016, 03:46:27 AM »

^^^^What Scruff says^^^^

I would add at least you have a "smoking gun".  Intermittent electronics faults are really frustrating, so having it permanently broken is preferable. Also when  you try to fix it, it's good to know that you are unlikely to make it worse.
Having the end blown clear off a capacitor is a pretty good indication of what's up. 
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billi
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« Reply #37 on: September 19, 2016, 07:43:44 AM »

... not too sure , about that ! in relation what happened 
Quote
Electrolytic capacitors have a finite service life Billi and 9 years is good long service


It is and was pretty obvious , that the bad battery connections  caused a problem that the inverter could not handle  !

You might be right that inverters have a limited life span , but with a bit more care from my part , that would not happened


Billi
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1.6 kw and 2.4 kw   PV array  , Outback MX 60 and FM80 charge controller  ,24 volt 1600 AH Battery ,6 Kw Victron inverter charger, 1.1 kw high head hydro turbine as a back up generator , 5 kw woodburner, 36 solar tubes with 360 l water tank, 1.6 kw  windturbine
biff
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« Reply #38 on: September 19, 2016, 10:55:17 AM »

The biggest single enemy of our electric circuits ,
                                                    Is damp and dust.The fans pull the dust in over the circuit and the damp solidifies it into a goo that carries current.
   This is the cause of death of many expensive generators as well. In our climate we have to take measures to protect from the damp, easier said
   than done.
                 Biff
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Scruff
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« Reply #39 on: September 19, 2016, 03:00:31 PM »

Hope you don't take this the wrong way gents but I have to disagree with both your postulations.

Billi your battery terminations were an ..um...undesirable arrangement but not the root cause of your capacitors blowing their lids. I don't know why it is obvious to suggest it would be. Bad as they were for intents and porpoises all they appeared as to your inverter was an impedance.

The biggest single enemy of electronic circuits is heat.

https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=3&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwjuh7-ExJvPAhUqJMAKHfo6A2EQFgg6MAI&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.emersonnetworkpower.com%2Fdocumentation%2Fen-US%2FServices%2FMarket%2FData-Center%2FDocuments%2FLS%2520Literature%2FWhite%2520Paper%2FCapacitors-Age-and-Capacitors-Have-an-End-of-Life-WP-SL-24630.pdf&usg=AFQjCNFWOiSBzFP5z4oNgxaRUTKj4FfUSA

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billi
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« Reply #40 on: September 19, 2016, 03:44:30 PM »

thanks for the link Scruff , will give it an intense read

Still  , fact is , that the battery gave me a spark (unconected to the inverter) before cleaning poles , and after cleaning  it did not !
When i  conected the +  (before cleaning and with a spark)  at the same moment the capacitor blew  , so i guss its not only old age

Billi

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1.6 kw and 2.4 kw   PV array  , Outback MX 60 and FM80 charge controller  ,24 volt 1600 AH Battery ,6 Kw Victron inverter charger, 1.1 kw high head hydro turbine as a back up generator , 5 kw woodburner, 36 solar tubes with 360 l water tank, 1.6 kw  windturbine
Scruff
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« Reply #41 on: September 19, 2016, 04:18:50 PM »

Going out on a limb here Billi but sparks only happen when there is a circuit. In this instance the circuit could conceivably have been powering the resistor that was your corroded terminations which would have the same electrical properties as an air heater if you had completed a circuit or a parallel connection.
The spark + capacitor smoke (mist to be more accurate) I reckon;..the spark was the inverter capacitor inrush with termination heating and the boom was the capacitor failing as it had fallen below specified tolerance due to ageing, sticking a discharged capacitor bank to a battery is quite a violent thing to do to them as there's no soft start, it's an instantaneous bucket-load of power. Really we ought to use a variac rheostat to charge them slowly but this isn't always practical.

The sparks in themselves are more representative of the capacitor state of charge and not an electrical problem. Even if you didn't discharge the caps they usually have a parallel bleed down resistor for safety so if left disconnected long enough will self-discharge. Anyways no need to take my word for it, ask your electronic surgeon his recommendation after he sees the first unit.  
« Last Edit: September 20, 2016, 03:12:56 AM by Scruff » Logged
biff
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« Reply #42 on: September 19, 2016, 04:46:54 PM »

  It says, Heat, Contaminate (dust), and Moisture. Grin.
     And in the second paragraph from the end, it says that yer man Biff s a genius .
    I have no idea why they try and flatter me like that.
                                                      Biff
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Scruff
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« Reply #43 on: September 19, 2016, 04:54:56 PM »

Heat is a bigger problem than dust evident becorse they put fans on devices to prevent heat build up that creates dust build up.
QED what we want is passively cooled conformally coated lekytronics. Like TriStars  lovefirefox if only MorningStar Corp. made inverters... fingers crossed!

O course me being an oddball prefer not having conformal coating because it's a nightmare for diagnostics...
I know why they flatter you B, you are a master of inexpensive solutions.

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biff
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« Reply #44 on: September 19, 2016, 05:22:09 PM »

  Ah,!!   " You are a master of inexpensive solutions"
    I have heard that before. the X said something very similar during our divorce proceedings,
   Mind you, I don,t think that she was trying to complement me like you are, she was using words like "Cheapskate"  ,,Scrooge"  etc..
   I must try and think kindly of her angel
                                                 Biff
       
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