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Author Topic: my first powercut in 9 years  (Read 15662 times)
Scruff
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« Reply #45 on: September 19, 2016, 05:33:13 PM »

....I like expensive things...but usually only if they're old/broken/not working/untested and going for buttons... whistlie
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billi
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« Reply #46 on: September 20, 2016, 02:53:45 PM »

Got in contact with one of the main Victron guys  , and he thinks its probably not worth repairing  , if i  ask  official  crowd .... , as well he says capcitors can blow  as well when there is too much ripple ....what ever that means in detail whistlie , i will hear from him more later ,

got in contact german genius from a PV forum , possible that i sent all my broken gear to him  , ok postage will cost me close to 100 euro  , but he will tell me  if its worth to repair

Billi
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1.6 kw and 2.4 kw   PV array  , Outback MX 60 and FM80 charge controller  ,24 volt 1600 AH Battery ,6 Kw Victron inverter charger, 1.1 kw high head hydro turbine as a back up generator , 5 kw woodburner, 36 solar tubes with 360 l water tank, 1.6 kw  windturbine
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« Reply #47 on: September 20, 2016, 03:28:23 PM »

is it a multi or a pheonix? if latter i have one you can have with toasted main board all big stuff is ok.

steve
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1600w PV main array at 24v, excide 2v 1000a forklift cells now x 2, 320w PV secondary array at 12v. Enfield 1944 ex RAF 5.6kw diesel genset (now in pieces, big ends gone), Petter AC1 28v diesel charging set at 2.8kw.
1kw wind turbine.
26kw wood stove back boiler to underfloor heating and dhw
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« Reply #48 on: September 20, 2016, 03:51:40 PM »

thanks for the offer  ,  its a Multi ....
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1.6 kw and 2.4 kw   PV array  , Outback MX 60 and FM80 charge controller  ,24 volt 1600 AH Battery ,6 Kw Victron inverter charger, 1.1 kw high head hydro turbine as a back up generator , 5 kw woodburner, 36 solar tubes with 360 l water tank, 1.6 kw  windturbine
Scruff
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« Reply #49 on: September 20, 2016, 04:15:41 PM »



Ripple explained

Ripple is a major factor for production of heat in capacitors which shortens their life.

Two things strike me from Victron equipment, they are the most prolific I see of any other in the spares/repair/reconditioned after market department. Of course this doesn't mean a lot other than they are popular and serviceable. Some things not considered worth fixing are so because you have to pay for shipping, customer service, replacement components and an engineer's time to fix it. If it's your own time, you aren't paying for transport and it's already hooped it'd be definately worth throwing a bag of caps at it, even just to have it as a spare unit if you question the reliability.

Sometimes I wonder how much of an appliance's pricepoint is warranty, customer service and advertising and how much is hardware.

At the end of the day everyone seems to agree the average lifespan of an off-grid inverter is 10 years.

For a DIY solution:
(bare in mind you can keep the tools after the job)

ESR meter: £80
Desolder station: £85
Solder station & gubbins: £50
Replacement capacitors: ~£200 (per inverter...extremely rough estimate)
« Last Edit: September 20, 2016, 04:23:47 PM by Scruff » Logged
billi
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« Reply #50 on: September 20, 2016, 05:08:44 PM »

Thanks scruff ,
I need a charge controller anyway , so I might invest in a Taiwan PIP  inverter charger with inbuilt MPP charger for little money ... Many people on a german PV forum are very happy with them  , not sure I have the passion to do a diy  ...

Billi
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1.6 kw and 2.4 kw   PV array  , Outback MX 60 and FM80 charge controller  ,24 volt 1600 AH Battery ,6 Kw Victron inverter charger, 1.1 kw high head hydro turbine as a back up generator , 5 kw woodburner, 36 solar tubes with 360 l water tank, 1.6 kw  windturbine
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« Reply #51 on: September 20, 2016, 05:16:19 PM »

All those capacitors have blue coats on so they are probably only rated up to 85degC. Electrolytic capacitors don't like heat and can swell up with age. If you are going for a repair then get high temperature ones fitted with a higher voltage rating as well.
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2.4 Kw Kyocera Panels (west facing) Feronius inverter; Sonenkraft Solar Thermal with Twin 180Lt & 280 Lt Thermal Stores; SAP 'A' rated property with UFH & wood burner. Full weather compensation on the UFH buffer temperature & differential controller decides where the heat from the wood burner goes.
Scruff
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« Reply #52 on: September 20, 2016, 10:25:15 PM »

so I might invest in a Taiwan PIP  inverter charger with inbuilt MPP charger for little money

Ha, what a coincidence I was watching this last night, only just realised it was the same dofer.



 bike
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billi
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« Reply #53 on: September 21, 2016, 12:20:16 AM »

i guess i read close to  all of those  375 pages about PIP  inverter   on that forum   http://www.photovoltaikforum.com/pv-inselanlagen-f57/erfahrungen-mit-mpp-solar-taiwan-rules--t99303.html  sorry german

 and as far as i am aware those  taiwan MPP solar crowd is improving  the quality step by step  and that video is 2 and a half years old


 
as well the old version of that PIP  could not handdle charge over 30   or 60 Volt , and the guy in the video mentioned  a separate charge controller so it could be possible that the separate chargcontroller went over the  voltage limitation   as far as i understand
the newer versions are able to do an equalizing charge...

Anyway  ,  i will give them a try  .... i tink

Billi







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1.6 kw and 2.4 kw   PV array  , Outback MX 60 and FM80 charge controller  ,24 volt 1600 AH Battery ,6 Kw Victron inverter charger, 1.1 kw high head hydro turbine as a back up generator , 5 kw woodburner, 36 solar tubes with 360 l water tank, 1.6 kw  windturbine
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« Reply #54 on: September 21, 2016, 01:08:21 AM »

Yurp I think you are correct Billi. If you see part one of that 3 part video he says the inverter works fine without the charge controllers, that the problem is (he suspects) because of the charge controllers.
60.4V would be my absorption voltage with nominal temp. compensation for forklift cells@48v and an EQ of ~ 63.2V

Having a cursory look at the effects of resistance on system DC Ripple, your terminations were probably more of a contributing factor than I initially thought.
Good luck with the new inverter  fingers crossed!

Scruff.
« Last Edit: September 21, 2016, 01:14:08 AM by Scruff » Logged
eabadger
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« Reply #55 on: September 21, 2016, 08:22:39 AM »

Bili, i emailed them about this unit, the bit that put me off was that the network facility they said was not available anymore.
i am an electronics engineer and bits not available now at point of sale worried me.
i have a Chinese inverter and it is not very economical on low loads, it has been great these last 5 years and will run anything including a big mig welder, but uses loads of amps on idle even with its power saving mode, we then got a secondhand spanish inverter very good but only 1500w.
i am happy with the victron, but like i said earlier in this thread, my mate in spain cant use power saving mode because he is in parallel configuration like you were, do you need that?
is place where inverter lives subject to damp? those large capacitor dont tend to dry out like the smaller ones which tend to be tightly packed on crowded boards, the bigger capacitors tend to have issues with the lugs, where they are rivited they can corrode and have poor connections which then exasperates the issues, where did the "bang" come from? did the capacitor split and explode outwards at the top? if yes this could just be that the insulator has failed, if the boards are ok and it is just this failed capacitor can you still see the unit when powered up and connected to your pc?
the dc ripple can be bad connections or fluctuations in your battery, as the internal resistance changes this will alter over time, the victron equipment actual measures this and should shut down if excessive, have you checked on other unit what ripple is currently?

steve
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1600w PV main array at 24v, excide 2v 1000a forklift cells now x 2, 320w PV secondary array at 12v. Enfield 1944 ex RAF 5.6kw diesel genset (now in pieces, big ends gone), Petter AC1 28v diesel charging set at 2.8kw.
1kw wind turbine.
26kw wood stove back boiler to underfloor heating and dhw
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« Reply #56 on: September 21, 2016, 10:18:36 AM »

Thanks ,

No i couldnot  connect  the laptop to the broken one (even before it went puff)  not sure if its my laptop ore the software ,  anyway i try the working one later

All i can say , is ,  that after cleaning the battery poles ,  there was no sparking at all ,  when connecting  everything  to the working unit

Before cleaning , there was sparking  at the + batt pole  and as well at the inverter , that then went to smoke

The invertershed is  dry (if thats possible here Wink )   and a timber construction ....

Got this reply  from my victron contact
ME
Quote
Age is  about 9 years   , 24 Volt  ,  dealer is not an option  , was not  to helpfull after i paid  the bill , anyway  i have frien that repairs  inverters and chargecontrollers  ,  thinking of posting it to him in Germany , i tried to connect my laptop befor the accident happend but  was not working , so do not know the ripple of my generator  , or can ripple come as well from other  sources ,   Thanks

him
Quote
Ripple from the battery i mean, can be caused by bad battery and/or thin long cables.
Advise is to buy new instead of repairing, technology is changing quick.
Chances of a succesful repair are very, very low.
We have nice 24/3000 and 24/5000 model with now 5 years warranty.

Sure i should get a new one  from Victron  Grin , but  still good info  and good contact  since years


Billi



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1.6 kw and 2.4 kw   PV array  , Outback MX 60 and FM80 charge controller  ,24 volt 1600 AH Battery ,6 Kw Victron inverter charger, 1.1 kw high head hydro turbine as a back up generator , 5 kw woodburner, 36 solar tubes with 360 l water tank, 1.6 kw  windturbine
eabadger
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« Reply #57 on: September 21, 2016, 10:27:14 AM »

the dc ripple on mine is showing at .05 volt for reference.
i got my multiplus for €800 new off ebay, but then realised victron now do 5 year warranty mine was dated month before this came in.
i recon if you put yours on ebay you would get a buyer.
but have a look at the capacitor that has gone and send photo, maybe lug or insulator inside.
the auto port select on victron software doesnt work very well are you using usb?
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1600w PV main array at 24v, excide 2v 1000a forklift cells now x 2, 320w PV secondary array at 12v. Enfield 1944 ex RAF 5.6kw diesel genset (now in pieces, big ends gone), Petter AC1 28v diesel charging set at 2.8kw.
1kw wind turbine.
26kw wood stove back boiler to underfloor heating and dhw
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« Reply #58 on: September 21, 2016, 10:41:27 AM »

yes its USB , and always worked  after some com  port search  , have to try on the   remaining unit , but not home now

I guess i have to reconfigure the setpoints of the unit  anyhow , cause  not connected to the broken master anymore


A new Phönix MultiPlus 24/5000/120-100    will cost me about 2000 Euro

two taiwan  -2400w 24V Solar inverter pure sine 60a MPPT solar charger off grid   about 1200 Euro  (but with chargcontrollers )   

 bike

« Last Edit: September 21, 2016, 10:48:13 AM by billi » Logged

1.6 kw and 2.4 kw   PV array  , Outback MX 60 and FM80 charge controller  ,24 volt 1600 AH Battery ,6 Kw Victron inverter charger, 1.1 kw high head hydro turbine as a back up generator , 5 kw woodburner, 36 solar tubes with 360 l water tank, 1.6 kw  windturbine
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« Reply #59 on: September 21, 2016, 11:03:46 AM »

it seams the biggest loss of power inverters is transformer design, are the ones you are looking at tordial or not?
my old chinese one is very reliable so far but uses lots of power as waste heat from transformer, the one i have is indetical to the sterling ones at 5 x the price, i read on a australian website of someone converting one to tordial transformer and making very efficient.

steve
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1600w PV main array at 24v, excide 2v 1000a forklift cells now x 2, 320w PV secondary array at 12v. Enfield 1944 ex RAF 5.6kw diesel genset (now in pieces, big ends gone), Petter AC1 28v diesel charging set at 2.8kw.
1kw wind turbine.
26kw wood stove back boiler to underfloor heating and dhw
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