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Author Topic: my first powercut in 9 years  (Read 15655 times)
billi
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« Reply #60 on: September 21, 2016, 12:35:16 PM »

I think those are transformerless ,

Will sent all my broken gear  to Guy in  Germany  , hope  parcel will be under 30 kg ..... but i doubt that

Hope he can repair an old Outback MX60 as well ....  whistlie

Billi
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1.6 kw and 2.4 kw   PV array  , Outback MX 60 and FM80 charge controller  ,24 volt 1600 AH Battery ,6 Kw Victron inverter charger, 1.1 kw high head hydro turbine as a back up generator , 5 kw woodburner, 36 solar tubes with 360 l water tank, 1.6 kw  windturbine
eabadger
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« Reply #61 on: September 21, 2016, 12:42:46 PM »

ones without transformer are called high frequency and are good but not so forgiving but they are light.
the ones with transformer can take more abuse, low frequency.
 are you sure the ones you look at are transformerless?
2000 over 9 years so 222 per year? seems not that good a value i agree, but if more economical than others may balance out with generator run time?
we have run generator loads this year we are in new house with all that goes with it.
i now have the multi on 24/7 and the big Chinese one to run heavy loads, plan is to use my Morningstar mppt rd1 to bring it on and run the immersions when power glut.

steve
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1600w PV main array at 24v, excide 2v 1000a forklift cells now x 2, 320w PV secondary array at 12v. Enfield 1944 ex RAF 5.6kw diesel genset (now in pieces, big ends gone), Petter AC1 28v diesel charging set at 2.8kw.
1kw wind turbine.
26kw wood stove back boiler to underfloor heating and dhw
billi
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« Reply #62 on: September 21, 2016, 05:48:45 PM »

Steve , I think there is no tortial transformer in them ,  ...  The video scruff attached is the one I talk about  company name is ... MPP solar

Billi
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1.6 kw and 2.4 kw   PV array  , Outback MX 60 and FM80 charge controller  ,24 volt 1600 AH Battery ,6 Kw Victron inverter charger, 1.1 kw high head hydro turbine as a back up generator , 5 kw woodburner, 36 solar tubes with 360 l water tank, 1.6 kw  windturbine
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« Reply #63 on: September 21, 2016, 10:23:33 PM »

Hi Billi, Steve,

they're definitely transformerless, I've fitted a couple and they're a great piece of kit for the price, worth it just alone for the MPPT solar charger. Of course being transformerless they don't have the same surge capacity and you can't 'AC couple' with them but I was well impressed. Like Billi I studied all the posts and videos I could find and to be fair that weakness in the charger was in Australia where it would be working far harder than in north west Europe. Word of caution though, one that I fitted did fail after six weeks, luckily I bought mine from a UK supplier so didn't have to send it back to Taiwan, worth the extra I'd say, dunno what it costs to get them from the far east but mine were less than 600 for the 5kVa 48V model, think the first (which had a smaller solar charger and two instead of three strings) was cheaper still.

Cheers, Paul
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http://lifeattheendoftheroad.wordpress.com/

'Off grid' since 1985,  Proven 2.5kW, Proven 6kW direct heating, SI6.OH, 800ah Rolls, 4.75kW PV ,4xTS45, Lister HR2 12kW, , Powerspout pelton, Stream Engine turgo, 60 x Navitron toobs and a 1500lt store. Outback VFX3048 and 950ah forklifts for backup,
billi
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« Reply #64 on: September 22, 2016, 12:44:13 AM »

Maybe its a good idea now to switch to 48 volt system  , as Biff mentioned to me ..... , battery can be  re- configured to 48 V  , only issue would be waterturbine  230 volt converted to 24 V DC and my 24 Volt Windturbine  but she is 80 % or so Ac coupled  so she would be ok  ...

Hmm  will think about that , would  mean  that al my 24 volt cables are supersized then   hysteria

Billi

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1.6 kw and 2.4 kw   PV array  , Outback MX 60 and FM80 charge controller  ,24 volt 1600 AH Battery ,6 Kw Victron inverter charger, 1.1 kw high head hydro turbine as a back up generator , 5 kw woodburner, 36 solar tubes with 360 l water tank, 1.6 kw  windturbine
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« Reply #65 on: September 22, 2016, 01:10:24 AM »

Yurp 48v is more better.

Having a look inside the PIP...I'm wondering where the rest of the filtering is.. Huh
Look at the size of the input side Capacitor bank on the PIP 4kW compared to my ApprenticeVolt 2.5kVA



Mpp PIP 4kW




ApprenticeVolt 2.5kVA

« Last Edit: September 22, 2016, 01:33:18 AM by Scruff » Logged
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« Reply #66 on: September 22, 2016, 02:02:39 AM »

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camillitech
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« Reply #67 on: September 22, 2016, 08:33:36 AM »

Definitely 48V is the way to go Billi, you could get twice as much PV with the same MPPT charger plus reduced resistance in your cables. Think your water turbine may be an issue though, pretty sure you cannot 'AC couple' conventionally through a transformerless inverter. Well you can but as soon as your consumer loads fall below the turbines output methinks it'll fry the inverter. Not sure what would happen if you connected to your 'AC in' though, perhaps that would work?

Aye Scruff someone suggested that method to me, good to see it works, I just fitted a small MCB that I throw before reconnecting the large battery cables or re inserting the fuse.

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http://lifeattheendoftheroad.wordpress.com/

'Off grid' since 1985,  Proven 2.5kW, Proven 6kW direct heating, SI6.OH, 800ah Rolls, 4.75kW PV ,4xTS45, Lister HR2 12kW, , Powerspout pelton, Stream Engine turgo, 60 x Navitron toobs and a 1500lt store. Outback VFX3048 and 950ah forklifts for backup,
billi
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« Reply #68 on: September 22, 2016, 09:25:22 AM »

Hi Paul , if i go for 48 volt then with a victron and ac couple wind and waterturbine

Billi
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1.6 kw and 2.4 kw   PV array  , Outback MX 60 and FM80 charge controller  ,24 volt 1600 AH Battery ,6 Kw Victron inverter charger, 1.1 kw high head hydro turbine as a back up generator , 5 kw woodburner, 36 solar tubes with 360 l water tank, 1.6 kw  windturbine
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« Reply #69 on: September 22, 2016, 10:10:54 AM »

Hello Billi,
      I am glad to hear that you are thinking 48volt. If i thought that i could persuade you to go up to 120vdc, i would give it a giood try, Grin
   I would just like to add,that there are plenty of old rack mount, smart, 3,000va  APC, UPSs for sale for around 150euros.(Or have been). The can easily be hard wired to an external bank.
   So You would never be stuck again if you had one in reserve. They can chuck out a healthy 2.5kw. They might be a little juicy when they are older but they are a good thing to
   have under the bed in an emergency. The lecky is good quailty sine wave.
   If you have bother finding one, let me know and I can supply you with one for 150euros (that is what it cost me)
                                                                                     Biff
         
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« Reply #70 on: September 22, 2016, 01:50:44 PM »

Hi Paul , if i go for 48 volt then with a victron and ac couple wind and waterturbine

Billi

How do you mean Billi, buy another Victron but just 48V or do you have a 'cunning plan' to utilize your 24V one with some 48V PIP's  onpatrol

Cheers, Paul

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http://lifeattheendoftheroad.wordpress.com/

'Off grid' since 1985,  Proven 2.5kW, Proven 6kW direct heating, SI6.OH, 800ah Rolls, 4.75kW PV ,4xTS45, Lister HR2 12kW, , Powerspout pelton, Stream Engine turgo, 60 x Navitron toobs and a 1500lt store. Outback VFX3048 and 950ah forklifts for backup,
eabadger
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« Reply #71 on: September 22, 2016, 02:15:59 PM »

maybe over the years i have been unlucky or demanded too much but i have a few (many) high frequency small transformer type inverter release the magic smoke.
i tried the apc route but found the no or low ac load still used lots of dc power.
i bought a w7 powerstar inverter charger 5 years ago and it never refused a load including big mig welder that the generator complains about.
high frequency stuff is great and lite, maybe with quality ones the semiconductors are better, but i have resevations on so many chinese things, except the food.
higher dc voltage to a point is fantastic idea same power lower amps less stress smaller cable section, so 48v seems good.
i would like to know why your victron went at 9 years, i hope mine lasts longer, i have had 3 morningstar mppt's fail, but still just bought 2 more, all these parts have stayed expensive, just the pv keeps on falling.

steve
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1600w PV main array at 24v, excide 2v 1000a forklift cells now x 2, 320w PV secondary array at 12v. Enfield 1944 ex RAF 5.6kw diesel genset (now in pieces, big ends gone), Petter AC1 28v diesel charging set at 2.8kw.
1kw wind turbine.
26kw wood stove back boiler to underfloor heating and dhw
biff
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« Reply #72 on: September 22, 2016, 02:43:52 PM »

  There are many different trains of thought on low and high frequency inverter
                            I recall the first cheap high frequency inverters flooding the market, the failure rate was extremely high, The switching chips were not up to the job, i am told that they use the same technology as the mob phone chargers, no trasnformer. The reason that they were so popular was that postage was cheap and that is a fact. Try posting a 1kw low frequency baby and you will see why they sold very few.
  However, Wind turbine buyers like myself suspected that the inverters supplied must have been filled with concrete because they weighted so heavy and yet the years go by and the very first one that I installed all those years ago is still supplying the lecky to this house, never missing a beat, surviving lightening strikes and incalculable overloading.
 They embodied simplicity, when grossly overloaded,they just conked out. You just went and switched them off and then on and hey presto ,back in business and the little Chinaman in the dash smiling once again. My good inverters came on a pallet but the headaches all came in the post. And yes I agree,there was indeed some terrible Chinese rubbish at the start.
                                                                                     Biff
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billi
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« Reply #73 on: September 22, 2016, 06:33:22 PM »

Hi Paul , if i go for 48 volt then with a victron and ac couple wind and waterturbine

Billi

How do you mean Billi, buy another Victron but just 48V or do you have a 'cunning plan' to utilize your 24V one with some 48V PIP's  onpatrol

Cheers, Paul


   Paul I was more thinking about a new victeon 5000 watt 48 volt ... But I will sent all my broken gear to this genius in Germany and then decide he thinks that its repairable ... And as well find out if we can live with just the one 3000 watt left over victron ... Which would be good  ,   
Billi
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1.6 kw and 2.4 kw   PV array  , Outback MX 60 and FM80 charge controller  ,24 volt 1600 AH Battery ,6 Kw Victron inverter charger, 1.1 kw high head hydro turbine as a back up generator , 5 kw woodburner, 36 solar tubes with 360 l water tank, 1.6 kw  windturbine
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« Reply #74 on: September 22, 2016, 06:51:50 PM »

we are just fine on a 3000 24 70, never tripped, even with chop saw or immersion element, just not all at same time!!
with new software you can now gridtie the multi so maybe use with a gti? during extra input capacity?
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1600w PV main array at 24v, excide 2v 1000a forklift cells now x 2, 320w PV secondary array at 12v. Enfield 1944 ex RAF 5.6kw diesel genset (now in pieces, big ends gone), Petter AC1 28v diesel charging set at 2.8kw.
1kw wind turbine.
26kw wood stove back boiler to underfloor heating and dhw
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