navitron
 
Renewable Energy and Sustainability Forum
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
News: Anyone wishing to register as a new member on the forum is strongly recommended to use a "proper" email address - following recent spam/hack attempts on the forum, all security is set to "high", and "disposable" email addresses like Gmail, Yahoo and Hotmail tend to be viewed with suspicion, and the application rejected if there is any doubt whatsoever
 
Recent Articles: Navitron Partners With Solax to Help Create A More Sustainable Future | Navitron Calls for Increased Carbon Footprint Reduction In Light of Earth Overshoot Day | A plea from The David School - Issue 18
   Home   Help Search Login Register  
Pages: [1]   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: IBC cleaning and use  (Read 4830 times)
heatherhopper
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 347


« on: September 15, 2016, 11:06:58 AM »

Water supplies have been a little stretched over the last couple of years so I have acquired some IBCs to increase our storage capacity. The shortage may well just be a cyclic thing but I don't want to follow the national water authorities example of not giving this particular element of sustainability proper long term consideration!
I have read other threads regarding IBC preparation and use but....
These particular units have all been used exclusively for food additives (fruit concentrates etc) easily diluted down and having trawled through all the Safety Data Sheets and stuff I am happy they are suitable for the job.
I will be thoroughly cleaning them out but wondered if anyone has experienced a later residual effect from previous use even after a good flush out? I don't want to put them in situ (where access will be less comfortable) and find a whiff or taint of strawberry or vanilla coming out of the tap because I didn't do a good enough job - the other half would not be impressed and I can hear the hoots of derision now.
Logged

Off grid AC coupled, 6kW Proven, 2.8kW PV, SMA SI/SB/WB Inverters, 4x576ah Rolls batteries @ 24v, 25kW Biomass Boiler, Wood Stoves, Spring/Well water. Sorry planet - I did try.
Iain
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1721


« Reply #1 on: September 15, 2016, 11:17:50 AM »

Hi
I use 4 IBC's (in a shed) and 2 other storage tanks, but only for rainwater collection and used for toilet flushing, rinsing water etc.
I think there would be issues using them for potable water. As they are clear/ opaque any light will allow a small amount of algae growth (even in the shed). I use chlorine to keep the water "fresh" but wouldn't use it for potable. Also above ground storage causes temperature changes in the water which does allow bugs to grow.

Iain
« Last Edit: September 15, 2016, 12:11:03 PM by Iain » Logged

1.98kWp PV (11 x Sharp 180 and SB 2.5)
20 x 65mm Thermal and 180ltr unvented
Powervault 4Kw - G200 Lithium-Ion (LiFePO4)
9000ltr rainwater storage   Plymouth
camillitech
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 5403



WWW
« Reply #2 on: September 15, 2016, 12:05:05 PM »

Hi
I use 4 IBC's and 2 other storage tanks, but only for rainwater collection and used for toilet flushing, rinsing water etc.
I think there would be issues using them for potable water. As they are clear/ opaque any light will allow a small amount of algae growth. I use chlorine to keep the water "fresh" but wouldn't use it for potable. Also above ground storage causes temperature changes in the water which does allow bugs to grow.

Iain

Aye, they most definitely need kept in the dark, both to prevent UV degradation and algal growth. I stupidly used yellow MDPE gas pipe instead of blue water pipe for a supply from my well to the settling tank. Every summer it gets blocked with algae and one day I'll get around to replacing it.

Cheers, Paul
Logged

http://lifeattheendoftheroad.wordpress.com/

'Off grid' since 1985,  Proven 2.5kW, Proven 6kW direct heating, SI6.OH, 800ah Rolls, 4.75kW PV ,4xTS45, Lister HR2 12kW, , Powerspout pelton, Stream Engine turgo, 60 x Navitron toobs and a 1500lt store. Outback VFX3048 and 950ah forklifts for backup,
heatherhopper
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 347


« Reply #3 on: September 15, 2016, 12:36:14 PM »

Thanks for those comments gents. I should perhaps have provided more information.
I will be using black IBCs for our "potable" water supply. These will be in series with all our other tanks (replacing one or two that have seen better days) and there is a constant flow through the complete system which is "spring fed". I have a mixed underflow/overflow/reverse flow system that will be rationalised a bit in all this change.  This provides a complete volume "flush" approximately every 36 hours for most of the tanks - larger, nominally "potable" quality, tank is a bit longer. The temperature is generally consistent throughout the system. They are likely to be buried (at least partially and then covered), although I am toying with a revised system layout that will put them "inside", and all the pipework is buried or enclosed. I will also be adding more rainwater harvesting into the system and these will also be black IBCs. A couple of opaque IBCs will be used for system overflow and rainwater collection and used for garden watering - we have previously had very limited storage for this.
Of course under "drought" conditions our incoming water all but disappears and we replenish from two wells but these are not inexhaustible and it is these circumstances for which the extra storage is needed. I am hopeful the extra days provided to empty the system will suffice but only time will tell. We do have contingency plans for the day (yet to happen, although we have tested it) when we exhaust all supplies and storage.
Logged

Off grid AC coupled, 6kW Proven, 2.8kW PV, SMA SI/SB/WB Inverters, 4x576ah Rolls batteries @ 24v, 25kW Biomass Boiler, Wood Stoves, Spring/Well water. Sorry planet - I did try.
dhaslam
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 6775



« Reply #4 on: September 15, 2016, 01:12:54 PM »

I have four IBCs  for rainwater storage.   They are  clear but covered with aluminium sheeting and on north facing side of the house.   The water is used for the washing machine and  for hot water  with  a UV filter.   There doesn't seem to be any problem with algae  in the tanks.  Usage is a about 220 litres per day  which is about 50% of the water collected from the roof normally  but there  has been about six weeks this year using  mains only and I don't let the  water level drop below one section.       
Logged

DHW 250 litre cylinder  60 X 47mm tubes
Heating  180,000 litre straw insulated seasonal store, 90X58mm tubes + 7 sqm flat collectors, 1 kW VAWT, 3 kW heatpump plus Walltherm gasifying stove
djs63
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 351


« Reply #5 on: September 15, 2016, 06:19:30 PM »

Sun light degrades the plastic and it becomes brittle. Another reason to keep covered.
Logged

6 Kw Proven wind turbine, 15 Navitron evacuated solar hot water tube array and 1.8 Kw PV, grid connected (SMA inverters) and GSHP supplying radiators and UFH. Wood burning stove (Esse 300) and oil fired Rayburn. Rainwater harvesting 4000 litre tank underground. Nissan Leaf
Justme
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 3530


« Reply #6 on: September 15, 2016, 10:09:34 PM »

We use a 1500L ex orange juice container for our potable water storage.

It was rinsed out then jet washed & then someone got inside to wash every surface manually.

Then it was filled with a strong ish solution of milton

We had no taste or smell issues.

Logged

Navitron solar thermal system
30 x 58mm panel 259L TS
1200watts solar 120vdc
FX80 Solar controller
Victron 12v 3000w 120a
6kva genny
6 x 2v cells 1550amp/h 5C
24 x 2v cells 700amp/h 5C
Total bank 4350 amp/h 5C
heatherhopper
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 347


« Reply #7 on: September 16, 2016, 12:19:00 PM »

Point taken regarding UV degradation.
Our existing system does not have any issues with algae but presumably the non-static nature helps with that and exposure is limited. I give it all a good flush out spring or autumn depending on water availability. Still to do this year as the water table remains very low - second year in a row and unfortunately torrential downpours are of little help. We need a good traditional winter and some better land management.
In the absence of any evidence to the contrary I will simply jet wash and if there is no apparent residual whiff after a couple of days start installing.

Quote
It was rinsed out then jet washed & then someone got inside to wash every surface manually.
I have managed to utilise the services of a small family member for internal tank pipework installation before (with the promise of goodies and a quick tutorial in basic wrench use). Doubt we have one small enough to get through a 1000lt IBC inspection port and the price will probably be exorbitant now anyway - simple bag of mixtures, some chocolate cake and talk of daring-do doesn't get you much co-operation these days. Should add, for those of a sensitive nature, that all HazOp, Risk Assessments, Escape plans etc were duly completed of course
Logged

Off grid AC coupled, 6kW Proven, 2.8kW PV, SMA SI/SB/WB Inverters, 4x576ah Rolls batteries @ 24v, 25kW Biomass Boiler, Wood Stoves, Spring/Well water. Sorry planet - I did try.
camillitech
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 5403



WWW
« Reply #8 on: September 16, 2016, 02:22:30 PM »


 All HazOp, Risk Assessments, Escape plans etc were duly completed of course


Hope it was proved 'gas safe' the appropriate certificate posted at the entrance and you were on 'standby' wearing BA  Grin
Logged

http://lifeattheendoftheroad.wordpress.com/

'Off grid' since 1985,  Proven 2.5kW, Proven 6kW direct heating, SI6.OH, 800ah Rolls, 4.75kW PV ,4xTS45, Lister HR2 12kW, , Powerspout pelton, Stream Engine turgo, 60 x Navitron toobs and a 1500lt store. Outback VFX3048 and 950ah forklifts for backup,
heatherhopper
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 347


« Reply #9 on: September 16, 2016, 03:32:55 PM »

Certainly we had such a thing Paul.
We also had an A2 size Permit To Work Certificate with integrated Confined Space Certificate and attached Method Statement signed by everyone present including the other half (who was providing the tea and biscuits), our neighbouring farmer (who was tail docking and so potentially a source of contamination) and the Posty (who has to come a fair way up the hill with the mail and likes to be sociable). The importance of all this was carefully explained and everyone's understanding verified at the Toolbox Talk.
Amazing how all this terminology comes back even though I have been in the real world for a good few years now. How I ever managed to get out of bed to face it all each day and still get some work done is a mystery.
Logged

Off grid AC coupled, 6kW Proven, 2.8kW PV, SMA SI/SB/WB Inverters, 4x576ah Rolls batteries @ 24v, 25kW Biomass Boiler, Wood Stoves, Spring/Well water. Sorry planet - I did try.
camillitech
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 5403



WWW
« Reply #10 on: September 16, 2016, 04:17:13 PM »


We also had an A2 size Permit To Work Certificate with integrated Confined Space Certificate and attached Method Statement signed by everyone present including the other half (who was providing the tea and biscuits), our neighbouring farmer (who was tail docking and so potentially a source of contamination) and the Posty (who has to come a fair way up the hill with the mail and likes to be sociable). The importance of all this was carefully explained and everyone's understanding verified at the Toolbox Talk.
 

Where would we be without the 'Toolbox Talk' probably the only sane bit in all that mince, welcome to my world, how I envy you being out of it. I had a stainless bolt 'gall'  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galling on me yesterday, took me longer to fill in the 'Hot Work' permit, make up the 'Risk Assessment' and complete the 'Permit to Work' than leg it down the aft engine room for the grinder and do the job  banghead

The word has gone mad!!!
Logged

http://lifeattheendoftheroad.wordpress.com/

'Off grid' since 1985,  Proven 2.5kW, Proven 6kW direct heating, SI6.OH, 800ah Rolls, 4.75kW PV ,4xTS45, Lister HR2 12kW, , Powerspout pelton, Stream Engine turgo, 60 x Navitron toobs and a 1500lt store. Outback VFX3048 and 950ah forklifts for backup,
AndrewE
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 339


« Reply #11 on: September 23, 2016, 07:33:55 PM »

Please don't knock it.

People continue to lose their lives in confined spaces: one of my last jobs was investigating a double fatality in a confined space at a grain store - and that was simply because they had actually refused to take the time to think through the "What if?" implications. (i.e. ignored HSA advice to implement confined space procedures.)  Another colleague had to go to the inside of a big tank which went bang because someone forgot that welding or grinding inside before purging it thoroughly or without monitoring was a recipe for disaster (or just didn't bother to work through the check list on an A3-sized permit to work form.)

Risk assessments are something we all do, all the time, mostly subconsciously and usually very effectively. ("Is there space for me to pull out in front of the approaching car that I can see, given what I know of my vehicle's acceleration and what I judge its speed to be?")

 It's only when we get too complacent, or are suffering from time or financial pressures - or other things that cloud our judgement- that we get it wrong and suffer the consequences. 

If I fall off a ladder that I have deliberately used unsafely at home, or lose the sight in an eye from letting caustic soda solution get pressurised, I only have myself to blame.  If an employee goes back to their family in a coffin it is absolutely right that someone pays the price for the family's loss.  Sadly it's never a custodial sentence though.
A
Logged
camillitech
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 5403



WWW
« Reply #12 on: September 23, 2016, 08:36:47 PM »

Please don't knock it.



Don't knock it, are you kidding, in my company it has grown 'arms and legs' and sanity has gone out of the window. Whatever happened to common sense and personal responsibility for ones own actions, and why the feck do we always have to blame somebody. It's one thing doing a risk assessment for entering a 'confined space', it's quite another when you have to do one for carrying a pot of soup across the galley, or operating a hoover in a lounge. Most of this 'risk assessment' pish is a 'get out' clause for the employer. Whenever anything bad happens the first question you get asked is did you 'risk asses it', doesn't matter if it's climbing the mast (which of course you would RA,PTW,PPE,WI, etc, etc ) or cleaning the toilet,  it must be 'risk assessed' first and a 'work instruction' drafted. I kid you not, my employer has a WI for catching a bus!!!!!

Of course if the company needs something doing in a hurry you do a 'dynamic risk assessment' which is 'corporate speak', just get on with the job and make it up as you go along  Roll Eyes Bit like you do in 'real life'  Grin

Cheers, Paul

Logged

http://lifeattheendoftheroad.wordpress.com/

'Off grid' since 1985,  Proven 2.5kW, Proven 6kW direct heating, SI6.OH, 800ah Rolls, 4.75kW PV ,4xTS45, Lister HR2 12kW, , Powerspout pelton, Stream Engine turgo, 60 x Navitron toobs and a 1500lt store. Outback VFX3048 and 950ah forklifts for backup,
Pages: [1]   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.20 | SMF © 2013, Simple Machines
SMFAds for Free Forums
Simple Audio Video Embedder
Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!