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Author Topic: Easterdown Plan 'B' help please  (Read 16221 times)
camillitech
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« Reply #15 on: November 05, 2016, 02:41:11 PM »


From memory the OCV of these MPPT chargers in the hybrid inverters is around 120V? my memory is shocking but I seem to remember doing strings of 3 panels when I fitted one. So I guess some 'jiggery pokery' would need done with your panels to make that work. By far the simplest way would be, as you suggest, another SI and you could use a 6 rather than an 8 to keep costs down. It was something I toyed with before coming across the Outback.



Sorry to be so stupid, but OCV? and MPPT chargers, are we talking about Sunny Boy ie inverter replacements? As opposed to a Sunny Island (inverter charger I'll call it to differentiate) replacement?






Sorry V, I was referring to those hybrid type Taiwanese inverter/chargers Billi mentioned. They also have an inbuilt MPPT solar controller, which is what makes them such a bargain. Trouble is that it's maximum DC input voltage is only around 120V whereas your SB's will be 500/600V. So, in theory you could rewire your panels to suit that lower voltage, which is fine if it's a ground mount with easy access and you know a friendly electrician. Probably getting too complexicated?
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'Off grid' since 1985,  Proven 2.5kW, Proven 6kW direct heating, SI6.OH, 800ah Rolls, 4.75kW PV ,4xTS45, Lister HR2 12kW, , Powerspout pelton, Stream Engine turgo, 60 x Navitron toobs and a 1500lt store. Outback VFX3048 and 950ah forklifts for backup,
Tinbum
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« Reply #16 on: November 05, 2016, 03:06:09 PM »

Tinbum, the hybrid inverter charger you've bought- is this a Solis? Is Solis a brand I might want to look at?

No, it's a Chinese jobby that seems to have various different brandings. Biff would probably like it!!

http://voltacon.com/sites/default/files/VOLTASOL%20HYBRID%20-10KW-manual.pdf

(EDIT link didn't work any more!!)

« Last Edit: November 05, 2016, 03:20:55 PM by Tinbum » Logged

85no 58mm solar thermal tubes, 28.5Kw PV, 3 x Sunny Backup 5048, 3x Sunny Island 5048, 2795 Ah (135kWh) (c20) Rolls batteries 48v, Atmos wood gasification boiler, Brosley wood burner, 2000lt buffer tank and 250lt DHW
eabadger
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« Reply #17 on: November 05, 2016, 04:12:45 PM »

landrover used to offer a 220v or 110v alternator for equipment.
they also did a 24v adjustable one for the ffr wolfs for charging and running radio equipment if i recall they were about 100a maybe a bit more, you need a box inside cab that controls it.
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1600w PV main array at 24v, excide 2v 1000a forklift cells now x 2, 320w PV secondary array at 12v. Enfield 1944 ex RAF 5.6kw diesel genset (now in pieces, big ends gone), Petter AC1 28v diesel charging set at 2.8kw.
1kw wind turbine.
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Mostie
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« Reply #18 on: November 05, 2016, 04:15:17 PM »

Tinbum, thats helluva cheap, hope it works  fingers crossed!


or just troll ebay for some standby goodies..... why? because we like pics of bodger'd together stuff  crack

I've just got a Solis inverter to play with  Smiley

I can highly recommend the Solis Mostie, been doing some trials for Hugh Piggott and Powerspout comparing Ginlong's 1500 Mini to several other inverters. So far it has performed much better than an SMA WB1200, and marginally better than an SMA SB3800. Have yet to try it with an Aurora PVi 3.6 but the Solis is a fraction of the cost of anything else I've used on my 'AC coupled' hydro.

Cheers, Paul

Thanks Paul, I plan to test it tomorrow cause the wood pile needs my attention today.
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2x Solis PV = 1.875 kW, Mitsubishi inverter heat pump. Yorkshire Boiler Stove.
Tinbum
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« Reply #19 on: November 05, 2016, 04:26:19 PM »

Tinbum, thats helluva cheap, hope it works  fingers crossed!

So do I but it's paid for with paypal and also says 5 year warranty.  How much is it to send back he thinks.  facepalm Worth a punt.
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85no 58mm solar thermal tubes, 28.5Kw PV, 3 x Sunny Backup 5048, 3x Sunny Island 5048, 2795 Ah (135kWh) (c20) Rolls batteries 48v, Atmos wood gasification boiler, Brosley wood burner, 2000lt buffer tank and 250lt DHW
billi
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« Reply #20 on: November 05, 2016, 04:36:37 PM »

As far as i know  those hybrid Inverter /chargers with Voc over 500 VDC are made in Taiwan , not China
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Tinbum
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« Reply #21 on: November 05, 2016, 04:41:28 PM »

As far as i know  those hybrid Inverter /chargers with Voc over 500 VDC are made in Taiwan , not China

Oh yes your right.
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85no 58mm solar thermal tubes, 28.5Kw PV, 3 x Sunny Backup 5048, 3x Sunny Island 5048, 2795 Ah (135kWh) (c20) Rolls batteries 48v, Atmos wood gasification boiler, Brosley wood burner, 2000lt buffer tank and 250lt DHW
billi
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« Reply #22 on: November 05, 2016, 04:43:29 PM »

or just troll ebay for some standby goodies..... why? because we like pics of bodger'd together stuff  crack

I've just got a Solis inverter to play with  Smiley

I've just got a new 10kw 3 phase 48v hybrid inverter/ charger for 102 inc delivery from Germany- just wondering if it will turn up Huh

EDIT- just got a message from the seller saying it will be shipped in 3 to 4 days.

102  ??    is there one 0 missing ?
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1.6 kw and 2.4 kw   PV array  , Outback MX 60 and FM80 charge controller  ,24 volt 1600 AH Battery ,6 Kw Victron inverter charger, 1.1 kw high head hydro turbine as a back up generator , 5 kw woodburner, 36 solar tubes with 360 l water tank, 1.6 kw  windturbine
offthegridandy
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« Reply #23 on: November 05, 2016, 04:50:34 PM »

Hi Vi, I think you'll find all budget charge controllers are DC as per the panels out put and DC to the battery. Cheap one may be limited to 36 or 48V strings whereas an Outback 80 is 150V from memory.If budget allow perhaps you should purchase a spare SB unit so you can swop it if need arises. Of all the kit you have in use this would appear to be the single item where a component failure brings you closest to disaster and dependent on a distant supplier for service.

I seem to remember Paul and I suggesting a Lister for bomb proof genny service but as it seems your dependence on the genny is limited, it's probably not worth the spend.  In the short term if your genny packed up I'm sure you could beg, borrow or hire something to fill in.  

If your system regularly needs a boost from the genny though I'd look for something a bit bigger perhaps with an auto start facility.  You could set this to a start condition (using a relay) so the genny would only auto start in the event of a disaster (SB failure) happening when you were off site perhaps.

Cheers

Andy
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Outback Flexmax 80
2 X Flexmax 30 PV CC
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12 Mtr free standing Tower.
u/floor heating from oil boiler cross linked to 12 K wood stove
Tinbum
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« Reply #24 on: November 05, 2016, 05:03:33 PM »

or just troll ebay for some standby goodies..... why? because we like pics of bodger'd together stuff  crack

I've just got a Solis inverter to play with  Smiley

I've just got a new 10kw 3 phase 48v hybrid inverter/ charger for 102 inc delivery from Germany- just wondering if it will turn up Huh

EDIT- just got a message from the seller saying it will be shipped in 3 to 4 days.

102  ??    is there one 0 missing ?


No, that's correct 102. I just happened to be browsing this morning and found it 5 minutes before the end of bidding.

I'd been  looking at them for some time but the cheapest I could find was about 2400. I don't know how certified they are for on grid use in the uk but there is a UK Ltd company that sells them.

There's a bit of a funny / scary story in this. I've had the 2400 one in my watch list for some time and about a month ago the buy it now was about to end. I got the 15 minute warning on my phone and put it back in my pocket. Later on that day I went on ebay on my laptop and found I had bought it. Huh
I couldn't understand how. I looked into the time and noted my wife had phoned me just before it ended. It was a sunny day and hard to see the screen so I guess that in answering or ending the call I'd touched the part of the screen that had 'buy it now' and then the subsequent confirmation. Thankfully the seller e mailed me the following day and said he was out of stock due to a firmware upgrade and did I want to wait or cancel the order? Roll Eyes
« Last Edit: November 05, 2016, 05:05:20 PM by Tinbum » Logged

85no 58mm solar thermal tubes, 28.5Kw PV, 3 x Sunny Backup 5048, 3x Sunny Island 5048, 2795 Ah (135kWh) (c20) Rolls batteries 48v, Atmos wood gasification boiler, Brosley wood burner, 2000lt buffer tank and 250lt DHW
DaveSnafu
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« Reply #25 on: November 06, 2016, 12:23:09 PM »

Phew, that was well caught, reminds me of the morning after a session on the homebrew, checked my emails to find I had the highest bid on a bike I was looking at.......25k, I nearly had kittens...retract retract retract. facepalm.
The bigger Voltacon inverter chargers now come with dual MPPT strings for very little money, not got one myself, but seen two of them in action and they seem to do what they say on the tin, they would take strings of four or five panels in series and handle close to 160a.
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V
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« Reply #26 on: November 06, 2016, 01:09:06 PM »

landrover used to offer a 220v or 110v alternator for equipment.
they also did a 24v adjustable one for the ffr wolfs for charging and running radio equipment if i recall they were about 100a maybe a bit more, you need a box inside cab that controls it.


Unfortunately I embarked on this project just as Landrover ceased to make the Defender and they were less than helpful even to talk about part numbers or recommended accessories for the Defender, plus the PTO had ceased to be standard since around 2007. But I knew that Western Power out here used to have generator-landrovers and the project to do the same to mine has grown out of that.


Sorry V, I was referring to those hybrid type Taiwanese inverter/chargers Billi mentioned. They also have an inbuilt MPPT solar controller, which is what makes them such a bargain. Trouble is that it's maximum DC input voltage is only around 120V whereas your SB's will be 500/600V. So, in theory you could rewire your panels to suit that lower voltage, which is fine if it's a ground mount with easy access and you know a friendly electrician. Probably getting too complexicated?

A plan is starting to form - and yes I have a friendly local electrician - except these things ALWAYS happen after friday 5pm and usually before a bank holiday weekend!

So following yours and Andy's advice I've talked to Chris Rudge and he is looking into a spare sunny boy option, as there seems to be some people around with here unwanted/ unloved ones, hoping to upgrade.

And I'm looking into these the various inverter chargers - Billi's recommended InfiniSolar has this spec:



 and the Voltasol is similar.

And thank you DaveSnafu for the recommendation. Very handy to know!

Would I be right that this means that in the event of a Sunny Island failure I could have switches in place to take in 1 of my PV strings (3.2 kW- ish each) and a generator connection which might get me through the month it will take for SMA and middlemen to replace the SI?

So plan B+ would be - manual switchover to Generator only. Followed by switch on Generator, followed by Plan B -  switch on alternative to SI?

 In the short term if your genny packed up I'm sure you could beg, borrow or hire something to fill in.  


Yes, when I had trouble with the Hyundai generator, Speedy Hire absolutely lived up to their name! Before we got the solar installed we lived here with the Honda on its LPG bottles and would run it about 8 hours a day, charging the batteries and running loads. Just turning it off at night. One of the reasons that having an isolated solution to charge the batteries solely from the generator would be desirable. Presumably Voltacon would allow that, but of course, a second SI could just be in parallel and would allow us to get > 5kW at a time out of our panels... I'll have to compare costs.
 

But I'm wondering now - Spare Inverter/Charger + MPPT inverter or Parallel SI with spare Sunny Boy and/or DC charger for Batteries? Presumably with the Spare Inverter/Charger + MPPT I wouldn't really be prepared for a Sunny Boy only failure because of the SI being in play?
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Tinbum
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« Reply #27 on: November 06, 2016, 01:24:03 PM »

I was wondering whether the Voltasol etc may work wired up in the same way as the SI. i.e. Have the SunnyBoys ac connected on the local grid rather than having to swap the DC inputs from the SB to the Voltasol.
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85no 58mm solar thermal tubes, 28.5Kw PV, 3 x Sunny Backup 5048, 3x Sunny Island 5048, 2795 Ah (135kWh) (c20) Rolls batteries 48v, Atmos wood gasification boiler, Brosley wood burner, 2000lt buffer tank and 250lt DHW
camillitech
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« Reply #28 on: November 06, 2016, 01:28:01 PM »

Gosh, that Voltasol is an impressive spec, seems they're improving them all the time, first dual strings and now with higher VOC!!!!
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http://lifeattheendoftheroad.wordpress.com/

'Off grid' since 1985,  Proven 2.5kW, Proven 6kW direct heating, SI6.OH, 800ah Rolls, 4.75kW PV ,4xTS45, Lister HR2 12kW, , Powerspout pelton, Stream Engine turgo, 60 x Navitron toobs and a 1500lt store. Outback VFX3048 and 950ah forklifts for backup,
camillitech
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« Reply #29 on: November 06, 2016, 01:32:33 PM »

I was wondering whether the Voltasol etc may work wired up in the same way as the SI. i.e. Have the SunnyBoys ac connected on the local grid rather than having to swap the DC inputs from the SB to the Voltasol.

Rumor has it not Tinbum, methinks Billi asked them if it was possible to 'AC Couple' and they said no. However Trace said the same to me years ago and I just went ahead and did it anyway. There were a few scary moments when I switched on the GTI but it ran OK for years. Methinks it's cos they're transformerless. Having said that they really do seem to be improving them all the time, so who knows.
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http://lifeattheendoftheroad.wordpress.com/

'Off grid' since 1985,  Proven 2.5kW, Proven 6kW direct heating, SI6.OH, 800ah Rolls, 4.75kW PV ,4xTS45, Lister HR2 12kW, , Powerspout pelton, Stream Engine turgo, 60 x Navitron toobs and a 1500lt store. Outback VFX3048 and 950ah forklifts for backup,
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