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Author Topic: Maybe there's no Dark Matter ...  (Read 2976 times)
Ted
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« on: November 30, 2016, 10:11:08 AM »

but there still might be Dark Energy.

https://www.quantamagazine.org/20161129-verlinde-gravity-dark-matter/
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biff
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« Reply #1 on: November 30, 2016, 01:13:32 PM »

Dat zis nuffin Ted,
           Hawkins used to try and explain his theory on "Inflation" which was a way of trying to explain that the speed of light was not constant,,
  He made sense back then but he is making more sense now and poor Albert,s theory on relativity might have to be totally revised.
 It all points to the big bang and an explosion that is still being felt but as Hawkins explains the speed of light through the universe was not constant because it reached more distant places at the same time so therefore was travelling faster, like the sail boat across the wind,
           This is big stuff at the moment, whistlie
                                      Biff
 
                           
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desperate
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Backache stuff!!


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« Reply #2 on: November 30, 2016, 08:59:55 PM »

Hmmm, I'm not so sure, the standard theory has survived for a long time now because while it does not explain all observations by any means there is quite a body of evidence to support it. I'm not sure how much evidence however there is to support MOND, it appears to owe its existence because there are quite big gaps in our understanding of why Galaxies don't fly apart if you only take account of what we can see. As far as I know C is pretty much a constant constrained to very tight tolerances, backed by lots of evidence and experiment, if it were not a lot of our physics would rapidly fall apart, for me that's a step too far.

I'm reading "A quantuum story" by Jim Baggott at the moment, 450 pages of light bedtime reading in this field  that either puts me asleep in 2 minutes or keeps me awake for hours??

how random is that??


Desp
 
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still a crazy old duffer!
biff
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« Reply #3 on: November 30, 2016, 11:09:25 PM »

Good for you Desp,
                I am reading "Sully". It is all about this guy who ditched the airline in the Hudson.
         Again it is light reading but very informative. You soon come to understand why "Sully" was able to land the plane in the water and realise why guys like him are so special.
  A lot of it is training but a lot if it has to do with the type is guy "Sully" was,,unflappable.
  Once i was out at sea, about 5 hours out, fishing. We were in a group of 5 trawlers and one  broke down in a heavy swell. So the 1st mate went down below and crawled in beside the engine to bleed the pump. Unfortunately the skipper tried the started to soon and the 1st mates shirt got caught on the prop shaft and ripped his arm clean out of the shoulder socket.
  In those days the RAF were the only ones that could help us if we got into a jam and sure enough after about 30 minutes they appeared streaking over the waves and talking like they did not have a care in the world. They were tuned into our wave band, They were issuing instructions to the boat in question, touch the stretcher on the line 2 times and the 3rd time would be for real. The swell up and down would easily be 20ft and the wind was quite severe, The 3rd time the helicopter went in, the guys were ready and it went like clockwork, 20 minutes later the 1st mate was in Altnagelvin holspital,alive.
  All the time this was going on, the guys in the helicopter was talking nice and relaxed, explaining that the line had a 200lb breaking strain and a snag was certain death for the patient. They were absolutely brilliant. You would wonder how anyone could make a full book out of the Hudson ditching  but Sully did and it is a very good read, really interesting stuff.
                                                                        Biff
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todthedog
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« Reply #4 on: December 01, 2016, 07:07:42 AM »

Saw the film a couple of weeks back Biff.
Really good fun and I have never seen such clear pictures filmed in imax whatever that is.
Plays a bit Hollywood with the facts except the end results.
CGI was fabulous even Mrs T impressed.

Read in the Grauniad about the extreme temperatures immediately after the big bang made light travel faster then the speed of light!! So Bonnie Tyler had predicted this some years back whistlie
Add this to a couple of Ted talks on dark matter dark energy and multiverses absolutely fascinating if incomprehensible.
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oliver90owner
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« Reply #5 on: December 01, 2016, 01:21:29 PM »

If the speed of light were 40mph a long way from our little spot in the universe, wouldn't that mean it was much smaller than we think and that the furthest stars and galaxies are much closer?  Or maybe the opposite.  Just sayin - that it would really mess up distances, speeds, luminosities and sizes, etc!
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dan_b
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« Reply #6 on: December 01, 2016, 03:36:47 PM »

I've always thought the Dark Matter theory was a bit of a fudge, it's just saying "there's stuff we haven't seen yet" but with a fancy name. Every time they point a new more sensitive telescope at a patch of sky that was previously thought of as being empty, they see new galaxies in their millions. Like Hubble and the Deep Field observations.   It's quite possible that the 90% of missing matter that Dark Matter is supposed to be some special substance is literally just galaxies that are so far and feint they're too dark to spot with current technology.   So dim matter rather than Dark?
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JohnS
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« Reply #7 on: December 01, 2016, 04:02:33 PM »


I'm reading "A quantuum story" by Jim Baggott at the moment, 450 pages of light bedtime reading in this field  that either puts me asleep in 2 minutes or keeps me awake for hours??

Desp
 

If anyone wants an easier read, try Bill Bryson's "A short history of nearly everything".  Highly readable and informative.

One thing that sticks in my memory that geological theories/hypothosises that were radical in the 1970s are now accepted as mainstream geology.
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skyewright
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« Reply #8 on: December 02, 2016, 10:42:59 AM »

It's quite possible that the 90% of missing matter that Dark Matter is supposed to be some special substance is literally just galaxies that are so far and feint they're too dark to spot with current technology.   So dim matter rather than Dark?
I'm no expert, but AIUI Dark Matter isn't postulated as extra stuff an awfully long way away, it's postulated as an extra added ingredient to explain the size & shape of even clearly visible galaxies?

Happy to be corrected...
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« Reply #9 on: December 02, 2016, 10:57:44 AM »

Correct, Dark Matter is supposed to be Magic Special Sauce which requires Special Science to discover.
I suspect it's just Dim Matter which just needs a bigger telescope to see.
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skyewright
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« Reply #10 on: December 02, 2016, 04:35:20 PM »

Correct, Dark Matter is supposed to be Magic Special Sauce which requires Special Science to discover.
I suspect it's just Dim Matter which just needs a bigger telescope to see.
If it were simply 'dim' but otherwise normal matter it wouldn't be a problem. Even dim things made of normal matter block light, so you could infer it was there because it would get in the way of seeing what;s beyond.

However, Dark Matter isn't just any old Magic Special Sauce, it's totally transparent (i.e. invisible) Magic Special Sauce...

Again, glad to be corrected.
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David
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DaveF
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« Reply #11 on: December 13, 2016, 12:17:09 PM »

An elderly neighbour who has seen close to 80 years of changes in this world still fondly retells the story about, whilst he was a boy of 8 or 9, one of his elderly neighbours ran in fear from the harvest field after seeing the then new and cutting edge binder in action. He ran in fear because he could not believe that any machine could knot a piece of twine. It must be the work of the devil.

Fast forward to now. The changes he would have seen and not even begun to understand. I fear his heart may have stopped from the terror. We discuss theories about things that are not there but must be there otherwise the universe would not stay together. We can do some wonderful things. As a race, we have come a long way....

But look at the war in Syria, the conflicts in Africa. The poverty, imbalance and hunger all around the world. Look at the poverty and hunger that may be a short walk from your own door. We have more than dark matter to learn about.
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biff
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« Reply #12 on: December 13, 2016, 02:43:03 PM »

             "We have more than dark matter to learn about"
  That is very true DaveF,
                              There are so many terrible wars and calamities on the move at the moment that it seems deliberate and almost manufactured by some higher human elite.
 The arrival of "Fake news" on the scene only 2 weeks ago , only means that the powers that be have lost track of the many lies and false flags that they released to the public and now they don,t have a clue as to what is real and what is fake. I think as we get older, we get more scathing of the leaders. We recognise their B/S immediately and judge them accordingly.
  I remember the Cuban crisis and the effect it had on the world and Ireland in particular. Whole towns and villages across Ireland were getting down on their knees and praying that Russia would take it,s missiles out of Cuba before JFK nuked them. It was touch and go for a while and if a nuke were fired in anger, it was the end of the world as we knew it. Nobody seems to be that bothered anymore and it is  accepted that quite soon, some will nuke someone. There is no getting away from that.
 Icy hearts will tell you that the population of the US returned to normal at midnight on the night of 9/11. There are too many people. People are living too long. Yet the survivors of Syria/Libya/ Iraq and all those countries that have been targeted by the west will find out the truth and even greater changes will occur.The world has been motoring on "Fake News" for 50years, No wonder Trump got in and Brexit happened. We have started eating our own tail by believing our own B/S.
                                                                  Biff
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todthedog
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« Reply #13 on: December 15, 2016, 07:35:07 AM »

Great advances on 'the Somme' fake news has been here forever.
I can't remember the chaps name but 100 years ago said an intelligent man only believes half of what he reads in the newspapers, the really intelligent man knows which half!!!!

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