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Author Topic: Trace / Xantrex SW4548E Fet board  (Read 2889 times)
magicmatt
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« on: March 19, 2017, 01:57:28 PM »






Hello All, this is my first post. I'm running 3 Trace PS inverters on a system which I've been developing and using off-grid since 2003. I have 4kW of PV, various Listers, hydro and Midnite 150 charge controllers, 2 banks of 2VDC 525Ah cells.

Last week for almost nothing I bought 2 SW4548E inverters from a near neighbour who had replaced them with  SMA. Both he said did not work but he could not remember why. I think they've been in his workshop for 5 years or so.
So last night I opened the first to have a look around. It all looked pretty clean, no obvious  burns but I could not see inside the FET board etc. Hooked it up to 48VDC 12Ah with an inline 25A fuse. The display lit up but I was not aware of any relay clicks. So far so good. perhaps.... The display showed Off, so I pushed the button to move along to On. This is where it got exciting and there was a fizz followed by a pop, white smoke..... I pulled the fuse very quickly.

Here I am today having read lots of useful information on this forum with the FET board to hand. The first FET at the large transformer end is toast, maybe the next and who knows what else. The fizz, pop, smoke was only at that end. My first question to the forum concerns separating the board from the heat sink. It looks like it should slide out, but all the FETs are held in against what appear to be spring loaded fingers. Does anyone know how to get the board out of the heat sink?

Any help appreciated.

Thanks
Matt
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Tinbum
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« Reply #1 on: March 19, 2017, 02:04:30 PM »

Hi, Looks to me as if you pull the aluminum bars out first.
« Last Edit: March 19, 2017, 02:11:30 PM by Tinbum » Logged

85no 58mm solar thermal tubes, 28.5Kw PV, 3 x Sunny Backup 5048, 3x Sunny Island 5048, 2795 Ah (135kWh) (c20) Rolls batteries 48v, Atmos wood gasification boiler, Brosley wood burner, 2000lt buffer tank and 250lt DHW
Scruff
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« Reply #2 on: March 19, 2017, 02:38:51 PM »

Yurp, Tinbum is right. They're using the same screwless compressors MorningStar use.
Slide them out carefully without pulling FETs off the board.
Then the PCB will slide out.



FETs don't fizz, pop, white smoke...they sizzle, bang, black smoke.
Have a look for a deceased capacitor or electrolyte goop on the boards too.
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offthegridandy
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« Reply #3 on: March 19, 2017, 02:47:20 PM »

Welcome to the"  mad house.  " members here have been known to play/work with Trace inverters, Clivejo and Simat have both posted here with adventures in the magic smoke as well as scruff. Have a search on their posts.  Search on Trace inverters may find something in the past posts.

Andy
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Scruff
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« Reply #4 on: March 19, 2017, 02:50:51 PM »

I've only let the smoke outtov my ApprenticeVolt Mass Combi and I didn't broadcast the fact.  whistlie
Bull ina Chinashop accident... facepalm

www.youtube.com     /      watch?v=giObT4-GngM

YouTOOB not working for me...
« Last Edit: March 19, 2017, 02:55:43 PM by Scruff » Logged
camillitech
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« Reply #5 on: March 19, 2017, 03:50:32 PM »

I've only let the smoke outtov my ApprenticeVolt Mass Combi and I didn't broadcast the fact.  whistlie
Bull ina Chinashop accident... facepalm

www.youtube.com     /      watch?v=giObT4-GngM

YouTOOB not working for me...


Thought it was only me Scruff, cannae see or post any YouTube links any more for some reason  Cry
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'Off grid' since 1985,  Proven 2.5kW, Proven 6kW direct heating, SI6.OH, 800ah Rolls, 4.75kW PV ,4xTS45, Lister HR2 12kW, , Powerspout pelton, Stream Engine turgo, 60 x Navitron toobs and a 1500lt store. Outback VFX3048 and 950ah forklifts for backup,
Mostie
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« Reply #6 on: March 19, 2017, 06:27:09 PM »

I've only let the smoke outtov my ApprenticeVolt Mass Combi and I didn't broadcast the fact.  whistlie
Bull ina Chinashop accident... facepalm

www.youtube.com     /      watch?v=giObT4-GngM

YouTOOB not working for me...


Thought it was only me Scruff, cannae see or post any YouTube links any more for some reason  Cry


you guys using Firefox?
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2x Solis PV = 1.875 kW, Mitsubishi inverter heat pump. Yorkshire Boiler Stove.
camillitech
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« Reply #7 on: March 19, 2017, 07:02:53 PM »

Aye Mostie, using Firefox but tried it in IE and Chrome too, bizarre thing is it's working now!
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http://lifeattheendoftheroad.wordpress.com/

'Off grid' since 1985,  Proven 2.5kW, Proven 6kW direct heating, SI6.OH, 800ah Rolls, 4.75kW PV ,4xTS45, Lister HR2 12kW, , Powerspout pelton, Stream Engine turgo, 60 x Navitron toobs and a 1500lt store. Outback VFX3048 and 950ah forklifts for backup,
magicmatt
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« Reply #8 on: March 19, 2017, 07:07:05 PM »

Thanks for all your replies. I got the board out of the heat sink. Those spring retainers are a tight fit and I just needed some reassurance before I put the pressure on.
Here's what I've got.



FETs 27, 28, 30, 31, 34, 35 & 39 showing scorch marks on the board next to the right leg viewed from the non-heatsink side (I think it's the source). The bodies are burned above the leg. FET 41 has no scorch marks but the body has a portion broken off above the source leg and this was lying down on the gate leg resistor. There may have been a short - I could not tell as I didn't realise what was going on until I had prised it up. FET 44 is cracked above the source pin.

I checked the gate resistors as per the excellent video instructions and I'm confused. 4 band, red, black, black, gold = 20 ohm I think. The readings I got were 10 ohm for resistors 1 to 44, then 2 ohm for 45 through to 52. I'm going to double check that with a different DMM once I find it.
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Scruff
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« Reply #9 on: March 19, 2017, 07:43:49 PM »

Gorsh looks like the electronic equivalent of a scorched piston in a timing belt failure.

you guys using Firefox?

 lovefirefox

This is why current limiting is so useful.  whistlie

Start with the obvious Matt you need a bag of FETs, and a solder pump. Keep removing FETs until the buses pass a diode test and there's no shorts.

Check the range of both meters simultaneously with a handful of random reisistors. If the meters corroborate the calibration is probably fine.
If they're the same FETs I'd expect they ought to be the same resistors. Lazy me never checks the bands just DMM 'em.

If they're the same band code with large variation in resistance then I'd suspect they're heat damaged and want replacing.
« Last Edit: March 19, 2017, 07:45:42 PM by Scruff » Logged
Scruff
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« Reply #10 on: March 19, 2017, 07:58:30 PM »

I'd go with the ESD safe Blue Roll for the new FETs. They can be sensitive outtov circuit.
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magicmatt
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« Reply #11 on: March 19, 2017, 08:07:54 PM »

Thanks Scruff. Bench top power supply is now on my list. I'll order FETs and solder pump then do more testing.
I'll post an update when I have more to say.
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Mostie
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« Reply #12 on: March 19, 2017, 09:09:29 PM »

Aye Mostie, using Firefox but tried it in IE and Chrome too, bizarre thing is it's working now!

sometimes you need to click the padlock at the top left of your browser

https://blog.mozilla.org/security/2015/11/03/updated-firefox-security-indicators-2/
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2x Solis PV = 1.875 kW, Mitsubishi inverter heat pump. Yorkshire Boiler Stove.
Scruff
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« Reply #13 on: March 19, 2017, 10:24:15 PM »

Penny dropped in the Navi server magneto methinks.  stir

Self-healing issue.  whistlie
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camillitech
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« Reply #14 on: March 19, 2017, 10:53:03 PM »

Aye Mostie, using Firefox but tried it in IE and Chrome too, bizarre thing is it's working now!

sometimes you need to click the padlock at the top left of your browser

https://blog.mozilla.org/security/2015/11/03/updated-firefox-security-indicators-2/

Yes, I see what you mean Mostie, that does help sometimes, funny it's never happened before.

Cheers, Paul
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http://lifeattheendoftheroad.wordpress.com/

'Off grid' since 1985,  Proven 2.5kW, Proven 6kW direct heating, SI6.OH, 800ah Rolls, 4.75kW PV ,4xTS45, Lister HR2 12kW, , Powerspout pelton, Stream Engine turgo, 60 x Navitron toobs and a 1500lt store. Outback VFX3048 and 950ah forklifts for backup,
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