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Author Topic: Heat Pump Install @ Courtiestown  (Read 46375 times)
Nickel2
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« Reply #75 on: November 12, 2017, 02:05:23 PM »

I was going to buy a trap as I seem to have lost the old galv. steel job. Brer mouse saved me the effort and expense by walking across the kitchen flip-top recycle-bin and falling in. I only found this out when I went to empty it and saw one ex-mouse stiff in the bottom.
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« Reply #76 on: November 13, 2017, 10:14:45 AM »

Good Morning All,

The picture below shows a whole 24hrs with the heat pump running continuously with three hot water spikes.



The water going out is averaging 38 - 39 degrees with the outside temperature down to 1degree C overnight. This is much better than the situation after the system was commissioned in early December. As noted elsewhere I'd decided to have the Hall radiator as the relief device  but this lead to not being able to adequately control the system and water was being heated to 45 - 50 degrees C going out from the heat pump. It didn't take a genius to work out this was taking more heat out of the ground than necessary leading to undue cooling and also burning more electricity in the first place. Knowing that we were going to be dumping the electric shower for a 'pumped' one it was obvious that we would be increasing the amount of heat being taken out of the ground in future as well.

Changing the Hall radiator back to a TRV and installing the bypass has been successful in allowing the system to run at a lower temperature.

Additionally now we have 'refurbished' the 'Dining Room' it is now being heated to 18 degrees whereas previously the space was unused and we just used to keep the two radiator TRV's at the No.1 setting as 'frost protection' so we are heating more of the property. In truth this space is still unused as it isn't finished yet.......

I mention all this to so that people who might be hesitating about going down the heat pump route in an older property know it can be done (bearing in mind we have done a fair amount of work to 'improve' the property in the first place). Our (2017 equivalent) LPG bill for 2002 would have been £2400 alone. Our current total energy bill i.e. heating + electric is looking to come in at less than £1700 and I'm working on that.

Regards

Richard
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1.28kW on a Lorentz ETATRACK1000 + 1.44kW/ SB3000TL-21 (FIT), 1.28kW/ SB1700 (ROO/FIT). CTC GSi12 heat pump/Ecosol/Flowbox 8010e/Gledhill ASL0085 EHS/3off Navitron 4720AL Solar ET & Immersun T1060/T1070/T1090. 3.375kW/ SMA SB3600TL-21 and a Sunny Island 4.4M-12 c/w 15.2kWh battery and a Renault Zoe.
titan
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« Reply #77 on: November 13, 2017, 03:43:39 PM »

Why does your dhw need four boosts every 24 hours, would it be more economic to have a greater differential on the tank and have one boost. Heat pumps are less efficient at dhw temperatures. I have a 305 ltr unvented tank and only use the gshp to heat the water every couple of days and try and try match that to the best PV output. There are only two of us but we always have plenty of hot water. I have also found dropping the flow temperature just a couple of degrees makes little difference to the house temperature but a noticeable difference to the power consumption. I have also found reducing the lower cut in temperature reduces the stop/start frequency with no noticeable difference to room temperatures.  



I meant to say I used to live near Rothienorman for three years, although that was some time ago.
« Last Edit: November 13, 2017, 03:51:01 PM by titan » Logged
linesrg
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« Reply #78 on: November 13, 2017, 04:33:38 PM »

Titan,

Why four boosts - a good question, even more so as, currently due to a bug in the software, the system takes the water to 58 rather then the set 55 degrees C!

Yesterday evening's peak was after I got in and noted the DHW temperature was down so boosted it before I took a shower. The 0500 - 0700 slot is the daily programmed period to take advantage of the off-peak electricity. The peak around 2200 will be post my shower and the second peak after this will, I guess, be related to the fact that the heat pump only heats DHW for 20 minutes and then reverts to the central heating function. I assume it didn't manage to heat the DHW completely so returned to it after a period of central heating duties?Huh

I have already extended the 20 minute DHW heating period to 30 minutes in an attempt to reduce 'cycling'.

CTC allows for three different DHW levels. The lowest is called Economic and has a max temperature of 50 degrees, Normal has a max of 55 degrees C and Comfort which has a maximum of 58 degrees (this last level gives out water at a maximum of 45 degrees and dilutes the 58 degree water to give a 'larger' volume).

The Mira Adept shower is preset to deliver water at a maximum of 41 degrees and experience to date shows it needs the 55 degree hot water setting water to operate properly. Mira recommend 60 - 65 degrees supply with a minimum recommended deltaT of 12 degrees C between hot water supply and shower outlet. That being the case the minimum inlet hot water temperature would need to be 53 degrees C.

The heat pump has an immersion heater which has only operated for a total 54hrs against the 3434hrs of the compressor since installation. I'm not sure quite what decides when the immersion takes over.

Regards

Richard
« Last Edit: November 13, 2017, 04:35:59 PM by linesrg » Logged

1.28kW on a Lorentz ETATRACK1000 + 1.44kW/ SB3000TL-21 (FIT), 1.28kW/ SB1700 (ROO/FIT). CTC GSi12 heat pump/Ecosol/Flowbox 8010e/Gledhill ASL0085 EHS/3off Navitron 4720AL Solar ET & Immersun T1060/T1070/T1090. 3.375kW/ SMA SB3600TL-21 and a Sunny Island 4.4M-12 c/w 15.2kWh battery and a Renault Zoe.
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« Reply #79 on: December 20, 2017, 09:34:38 AM »

Good Morning All,

Circa the 6th December the heat pump decided to throw a 'wobbler' and generated an alarm code. Having contacted the installer it code indicated an earth fault on the compressor inverter PCB and the heat pump went into limp home mode. This means it uses the 'immersion heater' to continue to operate.

The downside to this is that the consumption goes up so I've gone from circa 32kw a day to circa 85kw and that's with the thermostat wound down 3 degrees C.

The first replacement PCB was the wrong one despite CTC being advised of the heat pump serial no. and there are two guys here now fitting the 'correct' PCB. Fingers currently crossed.

I'll be harassing CTC for payment for the excess electricity being consumed (by my calculations this amounts to £98.07).

At the same time my ongoing battles with BT internet connectivity rumble on. When I got back to the house yesterday the connection was appalling and down to 0.44Mb. After commencing a 'Chat' and resetting the router connectivity just about died. I then had to contact them via my satellite broadband (I think the person in India missed the irony of that). This morning I have no BT broadband connectivity at all. Having commenced another 'Chat' with the Asian sub-continet I was put on to the 'Repair Team' in Cardiff. Apparently a reset is required. Only 6 weeks ago a engineer came out and had to reset something at the exchange.

I am getting really p****d off with BT. Referring to another thread I now have a MIMO broadband antenna booster and router sat here in the kitchen and a 2Gb Three SIM to trial their coverage here. I need to contact Three to find out which direction their antenna is and then this weekend assisted by my eldest son we'll get this booster aerial rigged and give it a try.

I sincerely hope I'll be able to stick two fingers up at BT............

Regards

Richard
« Last Edit: December 21, 2017, 10:18:29 AM by linesrg » Logged

1.28kW on a Lorentz ETATRACK1000 + 1.44kW/ SB3000TL-21 (FIT), 1.28kW/ SB1700 (ROO/FIT). CTC GSi12 heat pump/Ecosol/Flowbox 8010e/Gledhill ASL0085 EHS/3off Navitron 4720AL Solar ET & Immersun T1060/T1070/T1090. 3.375kW/ SMA SB3600TL-21 and a Sunny Island 4.4M-12 c/w 15.2kWh battery and a Renault Zoe.
Tinbum
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« Reply #80 on: December 20, 2017, 10:15:43 AM »

BT really are the worst company ever.

I had a fault for over 6 months which was only found/rectified when I applied for a second line. (leaking heat shrunk joint on our pole.) It must have cost them thousands in engineers wasted time.

The second line took months to install. They really are incompetent. I went to the regulator in the end but they were also useless as they have no powers over openreach who BT put it all down to. I then had to raise a complaint with openreach as they didn't even finish the work off on the 50 pair cable at the bottom of our pole.

I've now cancelled the contract on the second line as BT were going to put the price up which gave me the option to leave even though under contract.
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« Reply #81 on: December 30, 2017, 09:17:06 AM »

Good Morning All,

SWMBO is not a happy bunny or certainly wasn't last night when there wasn't enough water to have a bath, much cursing of the heat pump installers and the removal of the electric shower unit!!!!!!! We will need to have a further group discussion with our two sons and the timing of their showers.

It is something which needs managing (and can be managed) now the heat pump is in place but I'm 'publishing' it here for the information of others. I could fit the 6ltrs/ min shower head but I have to agree with the boys it really isn't enough to get what I would call a shower and I know SWMBO struggles to wash the shampoo out of her hair with such a low flow.

I'm trying to work out whether leaving the hot water function at 20 minutes is better than my having changed it to 30 minutes. I guess leaving it at 20 minutes (and I believe there is an equal duty cycle (to be monitored) means that in two hours there would be three periods of heating equalling an hour which is as much as you'd get by changing it to a 30 minute cycle. The difference is that you'd get 40 minutes of heating in the first hour with a 20 minute cycle?

Regards

Richard
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1.28kW on a Lorentz ETATRACK1000 + 1.44kW/ SB3000TL-21 (FIT), 1.28kW/ SB1700 (ROO/FIT). CTC GSi12 heat pump/Ecosol/Flowbox 8010e/Gledhill ASL0085 EHS/3off Navitron 4720AL Solar ET & Immersun T1060/T1070/T1090. 3.375kW/ SMA SB3600TL-21 and a Sunny Island 4.4M-12 c/w 15.2kWh battery and a Renault Zoe.
Countrypaul
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« Reply #82 on: December 30, 2017, 03:08:23 PM »

Have you considered adding an inline electric heater to the shower supply? Perhaps not as overll efficient as you would like, but its use would normally be limited to those occasions when the shower management has been comprimised by your sons lack of consideration/lack of thought and would prevent the problem of your wife getting the shampoo on and then finding herself in a cold shower where the blame will always go your direction!



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gnarly
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« Reply #83 on: December 30, 2017, 08:29:49 PM »

Hi Richard
Iím intrigued... can you explain what the problem is to us non-experts?
You have a powerful heat pump, but the house heating is on (and it is cold outside?) therefore very little spare capacity to heat the DHW once the hot water is used up?
So the heat pump is basically on continuously and multiplexing between radiators and hot water?
Does it have a sensor on the DHW tank, but it canít do any faster heating because it is already having to heat the house?
Many thanks
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Iain
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« Reply #84 on: December 30, 2017, 08:35:11 PM »

Hi
Quote
.I'm trying to work out whether leaving the hot water function at 20 minutes is better than my having changed it to 30 minutes. I guess leaving it at 20 minutes (and I believe there is an equal duty cycle (to be monitored) means that in two hours there would be three periods of heating equalling an hour which is as much as you'd get by changing it to a 30 minute cycle. The difference is that you'd get 40 minutes of heating in the first hour with a 20 minute cycle?

Can you set it to prioritise HW at certain times to allow quick top up. i.e. HW only between 0600-0700 etc to attain a certain temp before dropping back to heating.

Just like a standard boiler system
Iain
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« Reply #85 on: December 30, 2017, 09:33:41 PM »

Good Evening All,

I'll attempt to answer the questions as best I can or at least to the limit of my understanding.

The heat pump system was fitted and kind of up and running about a week before Xmas 2016 so it has been running just over a year now. Last winter the electric shower was still up and running but it was always the intention to remove it and go over 100% to the heat pump. I must admit to having certain reservations but given a power outage both the heat pump and the shower would have been taken down so 'we' went with removing the shower.

The system can either heat the DHW or run the central heating.

The standard CTC hot water heating option/ default is a 20 minute cycle before it goes back to central heating mode. I haven't actually stood close by to observe whether after having gone back to the central heating cycle it reverts to the DHW after 20 minutes.

The system has three levels of hot water heating:

Economic - heats the water to 50 degrees and distributes it at 45 degrees C

Normal - heats the water to 55 degrees C and distributes at 50 degrees C

Comfort - heats the water to 58 degrees C but distributes it at 45 degrees C

The manual lies in that it states there is a temporary extra DHW water facility which is immediately available. This isn't true as it won't work during a pre-set DHW heating period - it doesn't operate as an executive override and nor does it override the 20 minute 'cycle' mentioned above.

Currently I 'force' the system to heat the water to 58 degrees C on the Comfort setting (during the early evening) and then drop back to the Normal setting so the hot water goes out at 50 degrees to the shower. As noted elsewhere the minimum hot water temperature recommended for the shower is 53 degrees C.

I monitor the water temperatures then 'force' the water heating on the 'Comfort' setting to get the water back up to 58 degrees C.

I utilise Economy 7 to heat the water from 0500 - 0700, this is the only 'fixed' hot water heating.

I'm not quite sure where the temperature indicators are in the tank but I do know that the one is 'misleading'. Every time the system reverts to DHW mode the one temperature indication drops off by several degrees before the temperature indication starts creeping up as the heat pump imparts heat to the water. I feel the hot water tank possibly needs another sensor or one of the current ones re-locating.

Yes the heat pump is running 24/ 7.

The other factor when the whole family is living here is that the increased usage of hot water overall also becomes a factor in that the tank of how water is constantly being depleted.

It is a bit of a pain to have to closely monitor the hot water like this.....

Regards

Richard
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1.28kW on a Lorentz ETATRACK1000 + 1.44kW/ SB3000TL-21 (FIT), 1.28kW/ SB1700 (ROO/FIT). CTC GSi12 heat pump/Ecosol/Flowbox 8010e/Gledhill ASL0085 EHS/3off Navitron 4720AL Solar ET & Immersun T1060/T1070/T1090. 3.375kW/ SMA SB3600TL-21 and a Sunny Island 4.4M-12 c/w 15.2kWh battery and a Renault Zoe.
TT
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« Reply #86 on: December 30, 2017, 10:41:21 PM »

Doesnít your heat store have back up immersionís fitted?

If so I would use that to boost the DHW from the heat pump
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linesrg
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« Reply #87 on: December 31, 2017, 08:33:43 AM »

TT,

The heat store does indeed have immersions fitted, two of them. They are limited to a maximum temperature of 68 degrees. I would have to heat the 300ltrs in the heat store to say 68 degrees (currently at 19 degrees). It is an option but not one that I would want to follow as a fair amount of energy would be used up.

Regards

Richard
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1.28kW on a Lorentz ETATRACK1000 + 1.44kW/ SB3000TL-21 (FIT), 1.28kW/ SB1700 (ROO/FIT). CTC GSi12 heat pump/Ecosol/Flowbox 8010e/Gledhill ASL0085 EHS/3off Navitron 4720AL Solar ET & Immersun T1060/T1070/T1090. 3.375kW/ SMA SB3600TL-21 and a Sunny Island 4.4M-12 c/w 15.2kWh battery and a Renault Zoe.
TT
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« Reply #88 on: December 31, 2017, 11:11:18 AM »

Maybe,

But if the electric is used for DHW as a boost, itís keeping the cop of the heat pump high.
If showers are a known time frame, I would switch on immersionís, no point in making the heat pump work hard/ reduce its life span, by wanting everything off the heat pump.

The heat pump could them keen the water at a reasonable fall back temperature during the day


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linesrg
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« Reply #89 on: December 31, 2017, 02:15:47 PM »

TT,

I'm just trying to get my head around this.

The heat store would take around 17kW to heat to to around 68 degrees. It would then give up some of this heat to the DHW at some point. I don't know at what point the DHW/ heat store would reach equilibrium but let's say 50 degrees??? This leaves the heat store at 50 degrees.

In theory the heat pump would look at this and utilise this energy for central heating but equally it would look at it the first time the temperature in the heat store went above the circulating heating water temperature anyway meaning all the energy you would be trying to put into the heat store to heat the DHW (indirectly) would be 'stolen' by the central heating demand.

Thus I can't see that it would work.

I think I'll just need to stick to direct intervention.

Regards

Richard
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1.28kW on a Lorentz ETATRACK1000 + 1.44kW/ SB3000TL-21 (FIT), 1.28kW/ SB1700 (ROO/FIT). CTC GSi12 heat pump/Ecosol/Flowbox 8010e/Gledhill ASL0085 EHS/3off Navitron 4720AL Solar ET & Immersun T1060/T1070/T1090. 3.375kW/ SMA SB3600TL-21 and a Sunny Island 4.4M-12 c/w 15.2kWh battery and a Renault Zoe.
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