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Author Topic: Solar Thermal Production @ Courtiestown  (Read 8617 times)
marshman
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« Reply #15 on: June 20, 2018, 08:01:33 AM »

At least they were pictures of AN expansion vessel!

Roger
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3.15kWpk (15xSharp ND210)/SB3000. & 3.675kWpk (15 x Suntech 245WD)/SB4000TL, 10kW GSHP driving Wirsbo underfloor heating from 1200m ground loops. 10' x 7' solar wall (experimental). Clearview 650 Wood Burning Stove. MHRV - diy retrofit. Triple glazing.
linesrg
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« Reply #16 on: June 20, 2018, 08:07:44 AM »

marshman,

There is that positive to take from it, she did also thank me for fixing the PSU for her MacBook................

Regards

Richard
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1.28kW on a Lorentz ETATRACK1000 + 1.44kW/ SB3000TL-21 (FIT), 1.28kW/ SB1700 (ROO/FIT). CTC GSi12 heat pump/Ecosol/Flowbox 8010e/Gledhill ASL0085 EHS/3off Navitron 4720AL Solar ET & Immersun T1060/T1070/T1090. 3.375kW/ SMA SB3600TL-21 and a Sunny Island 4.4M-12 c/w 15.2kWh battery and a Renault Zoe.
Westie
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« Reply #17 on: June 20, 2018, 08:34:54 AM »

Good Morning All,

So my good lady wife, Kate, goes to the house yesterday evening to do a couple of jobs and grab me photo's of any ID sticker on the expansion vessel.

Well I do have some blurred and, in some cases, laterally reversed, photo's of a sticker on an expansion vessel. I now know not to make any assumptions. She managed to take pictures of the expansion vessel for the central heating.

I had thought it would be obvious which expansion vessel was associated with which system.............................

Regards

Richard

Hmmm...  If I asked my wife to take a picture of my expansion vessel I'd probably get told off and to act my age hysteria

« Last Edit: June 20, 2018, 08:36:28 AM by Westie » Logged

4kwp south facing array  SMA 4000TL grid connected.  2x30tube Navitron solar thermal panels (east/west). Arada 5kw S/C WBS. 25000Ltr underground rain water tank. KTM E-Bike  Cool
linesrg
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« Reply #18 on: June 20, 2018, 12:06:38 PM »

Good Afternoon,

Progress of sorts, there will be a meeting with the installers once I get back onshore. The installers have, probably quite rightly, pointed out you do get different results in the spreadsheet if you elect to uncheck the box 'Can system partly go into vapour'.

In the meantime the system remains aerated...........

Regards

Richard

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1.28kW on a Lorentz ETATRACK1000 + 1.44kW/ SB3000TL-21 (FIT), 1.28kW/ SB1700 (ROO/FIT). CTC GSi12 heat pump/Ecosol/Flowbox 8010e/Gledhill ASL0085 EHS/3off Navitron 4720AL Solar ET & Immersun T1060/T1070/T1090. 3.375kW/ SMA SB3600TL-21 and a Sunny Island 4.4M-12 c/w 15.2kWh battery and a Renault Zoe.
JohnS
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« Reply #19 on: June 20, 2018, 02:33:12 PM »

Good Afternoon All (again),

Grabbing this particular bull by the horns I'm looking into expansion vessels. I have found a spreadsheet on the Flamco Group site as at https://flamcogroup.com/media/files/calculationtools/calc_eng_solar_v2016.xls.

I have entered the following information:-

1. 3off 4720AL contain 3.3ltrs of liquid
2. I'm calling the total pipework involved in the system 35mtrs which is all 22mm so equals 13.3ltrs of liquid.
3. Call the heat exchanger 0.1ltr
4. The top of the panels is no more than 3mtrs above the expansion vessel possibly nearer 2.
5. I think the collectors I have qualify as Group2 - difficult to drain???

Assuming I haven't made a simple mistake the spreadsheet tells me I need a 35ltr expansion vessel which is almost certainly larger than the one I have fitted. I'll need to eyeball the one I have.

Comments invited.

Regards

Richard

I have to admit that I have no experience with solar thermal, but a 35 litre expansion vessel for a circuit with a 16.7 litre volume sounds wrong to me.

John
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linesrg
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« Reply #20 on: June 20, 2018, 03:13:52 PM »

JohnS,

With the information entered as suggested by the installer the spreadsheet produces a result saying a 12ltr tank is adequate.

Regards

Richard
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1.28kW on a Lorentz ETATRACK1000 + 1.44kW/ SB3000TL-21 (FIT), 1.28kW/ SB1700 (ROO/FIT). CTC GSi12 heat pump/Ecosol/Flowbox 8010e/Gledhill ASL0085 EHS/3off Navitron 4720AL Solar ET & Immersun T1060/T1070/T1090. 3.375kW/ SMA SB3600TL-21 and a Sunny Island 4.4M-12 c/w 15.2kWh battery and a Renault Zoe.
Iain
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« Reply #21 on: June 20, 2018, 03:30:59 PM »

Hi Richard
The expansion vessel is easy to check.
With no pressure in the system just put a pressure guage on the shrader valve to see what is in there. It should be about 0.2 bar below your designed system pressure. If you run at 2 bar set the EV to 1.8 bar. If it is too high, let some out. If too low pump some in.
The system can then be represurised to 2 bar.
The reason for the lower EV pressure is in case the system gets colder there is a reserve of pressure in the EV to keep the system pressurised. As the system heats up the fluid expands into the EV to stop the system pressure increasing too much and conversely if the fluid cools the reserve of pressure in the EV keeps the system pressure from dropping.
Mine  was set to 3 bar. With a system pressure of 1 bar, as it warmed up and expanded the EV couldn't absorb any of the pressure until it reached 3 bar, that was too late as the 3 bar relief was lifting and I kept loosing fluid.
I reset the EV to 0.8 bar and all has been perfect ever since.
Iain
« Last Edit: June 20, 2018, 10:49:15 PM by Iain » Logged

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desperate
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« Reply #22 on: June 20, 2018, 08:09:56 PM »

JohnS,

With the information entered as suggested by the installer the spreadsheet produces a result saying a 12ltr tank is adequate.

Regards

Richard

12 Litres is plenty big enough for your EV, if your system contains 17 litres cold it will only contain 18litres or so when hot. Tell your installers that you MUST have a manual air bleed point at the highest place possible in the pipework, tell them also it needs to be a 15mm gate valve with a blank/cap on a short peice of pipe on the outlet side of the valve. Then via a garden sprayer pump you have complete control of the fluid and air within the loop.

Desp
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dimengineer
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« Reply #23 on: June 21, 2018, 11:03:54 AM »

JohnS,

With the information entered as suggested by the installer the spreadsheet produces a result saying a 12ltr tank is adequate.

Regards

Richard

12 Litres is plenty big enough for your EV, if your system contains 17 litres cold it will only contain 18litres or so when hot. Tell your installers that you MUST have a manual air bleed point at the highest place possible in the pipework, tell them also it needs to be a 15mm gate valve with a blank/cap on a short peice of pipe on the outlet side of the valve. Then via a garden sprayer pump you have complete control of the fluid and air within the loop.

Desp

Desp - I'm curious. Why a gate valve and not a ball valve?
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Tinbum
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« Reply #24 on: June 21, 2018, 11:08:53 AM »

More reliable?  Huh
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desperate
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« Reply #25 on: June 21, 2018, 08:19:31 PM »

Ball valves have a habit of leaking through the spindle glands when you use them after a long period of inactivity and you cannot tighten the stuffing nut like you can with a gate valve. Modern lever type full flow ball valves are a lot better, but they still rely on a nylon liner within which the ball rotates which I think are less heat resistant than an all metal gate.

Desp
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linesrg
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« Reply #26 on: June 25, 2018, 02:22:09 PM »

Good Afternoon All,

Here's one for the steam enthusiasts amongst you....... Angry Angry Angry Angry Angry Angry

Regards

Richard


* Steam Generator.JPG (154.39 KB, 640x480 - viewed 199 times.)
« Last Edit: June 25, 2018, 02:24:31 PM by linesrg » Logged

1.28kW on a Lorentz ETATRACK1000 + 1.44kW/ SB3000TL-21 (FIT), 1.28kW/ SB1700 (ROO/FIT). CTC GSi12 heat pump/Ecosol/Flowbox 8010e/Gledhill ASL0085 EHS/3off Navitron 4720AL Solar ET & Immersun T1060/T1070/T1090. 3.375kW/ SMA SB3600TL-21 and a Sunny Island 4.4M-12 c/w 15.2kWh battery and a Renault Zoe.
gb484
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« Reply #27 on: June 25, 2018, 09:33:08 PM »

hi, don't know if this is helpful, but a couple of thoughts on looking at your schematic in German and in particular, Abb 3 or diagram 3 about the Schwerkraftbremse or check valve. 0 degrees - funktionsbereit=normal position for operating system. 45 degrees - offen=this position for filling/refilling system, letting air out, flushing the system through. 90 degrees - geschlossen=closed. There's a note, Hinweis, below the drawings about the relationship of pressure, Druck, to temperatures when running, Betriebstemperatur. I suppose, basically, the temp should never go above 100 degrees nor should the pressure ever be above 10 bar in normal use. The values must remain inside the graph. There's also a little note at the top of next column about torque. Nuts should be tightened to the figures specified but may have to be retightened as seals settle with use. If I were refilling this, I would do what another member has suggested and connect a mains water supply to the union below the pressure gauge, where the 84 is roughly in the schematic, making sure that the check valve is in the open position as above.
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« Reply #28 on: June 26, 2018, 01:50:41 AM »

Good Morning All,

It's 0155 and the anchor handler I'm on is hanging around waiting to run the last anchor.......... what fun.

The boss of the installing firm is now taking a lead in this issue. He was around at my property this morning isolating the Solar ET electrically and sheeting up the panels. I'm advised that the intention is to look at the system today.

I remain slightly sceptical but hopeful at the same time. It's only been 19 months now.................

Regards

Richard
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1.28kW on a Lorentz ETATRACK1000 + 1.44kW/ SB3000TL-21 (FIT), 1.28kW/ SB1700 (ROO/FIT). CTC GSi12 heat pump/Ecosol/Flowbox 8010e/Gledhill ASL0085 EHS/3off Navitron 4720AL Solar ET & Immersun T1060/T1070/T1090. 3.375kW/ SMA SB3600TL-21 and a Sunny Island 4.4M-12 c/w 15.2kWh battery and a Renault Zoe.
linesrg
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« Reply #29 on: June 27, 2018, 08:41:04 PM »

Good Evening All,

I'm not sure what progress has been made today but my installers advised they had been in contact with Navitron. They've reported that every time they fill the system air appears from somewhere in fairly short order apparently.

I should be getting of this vessel later this evening and should get home tomorrow morning and hopefully an update.

Even the Immersun is switched off currently.

Regards

Richard
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1.28kW on a Lorentz ETATRACK1000 + 1.44kW/ SB3000TL-21 (FIT), 1.28kW/ SB1700 (ROO/FIT). CTC GSi12 heat pump/Ecosol/Flowbox 8010e/Gledhill ASL0085 EHS/3off Navitron 4720AL Solar ET & Immersun T1060/T1070/T1090. 3.375kW/ SMA SB3600TL-21 and a Sunny Island 4.4M-12 c/w 15.2kWh battery and a Renault Zoe.
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