navitron
 
Renewable Energy and Sustainability Forum
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
News: Anyone wishing to register as a new member on the forum is strongly recommended to use a "proper" email address - following recent spam/hack attempts on the forum, all security is set to "high", and "disposable" email addresses like Gmail, Yahoo and Hotmail tend to be viewed with suspicion, and the application rejected if there is any doubt whatsoever
 
Recent Articles: Navitron Partners With Solax to Help Create A More Sustainable Future | Navitron Calls for Increased Carbon Footprint Reduction In Light of Earth Overshoot Day | A plea from The David School - Issue 18
   Home   Help Search Login Register  
Pages: 1 2 [3] 4   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: Solar Thermal Production @ Courtiestown  (Read 8821 times)
desperate
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 3472


Backache stuff!!


WWW
« Reply #30 on: June 27, 2018, 09:06:25 PM »

Good Evening All,

I'm not sure what progress has been made today but my installers advised they had been in contact with Navitron. They've reported that every time they fill the system air appears from somewhere in fairly short order apparently.

I should be getting of this vessel later this evening and should get home tomorrow morning and hopefully an update.

Even the Immersun is switched off currently.

Regards

Richard

Automatic air bleed leak ?

Desp
Logged

www.jandhbuilders.co.uk

still a crazy old duffer!
linesrg
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1121



WWW
« Reply #31 on: June 27, 2018, 09:18:07 PM »

Desp,

I wouldn't be entirely surprised that the whizzo new air vent may not have appreciated venting off steam. It is rated to 180oC but whether it is meant to be subject to this for any great period of time I don't know.

Edit - I've just found this in Navitron's installation manual;

Important notice: We do not recommend that the automatic air bleed is fitted as shown in these diagrams (i.e.vent fitted at high point - my comment). If the panel goes into stagnation the temperatures that can be reached will destroy the auto air bleed valve. We recommend that the Spirovent auto airvent is installed low down on the return side of the system. A manual air bleed close to the manifold inlet is advisable. Once the system has been bled and commissioned the Spirovent will continue to extract any gases in the liquid.

This is the same source that specifies the diameter of pipework to plumb the system with in comparison to panel area so as 3 x 4720AL equate to 8.43m2 gross area 15 or 22mm can be used. I guess the smaller the better if only to reduce the volume of water which can absorb air in the first place?

Regards

Richard
« Last Edit: June 27, 2018, 10:17:47 PM by linesrg » Logged

1.28kW on a Lorentz ETATRACK1000 + 1.44kW/ SB3000TL-21 (FIT), 1.28kW/ SB1700 (ROO/FIT). CTC GSi12 heat pump/Ecosol/Flowbox 8010e/Gledhill ASL0085 EHS/3off Navitron 4720AL Solar ET & Immersun T1060/T1070/T1090. 3.375kW/ SMA SB3600TL-21 and a Sunny Island 4.4M-12 c/w 15.2kWh battery and a Renault Zoe.
dimengineer
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 2288


« Reply #32 on: June 27, 2018, 10:13:59 PM »

Ball valves have a habit of leaking through the spindle glands when you use them after a long period of inactivity and you cannot tighten the stuffing nut like you can with a gate valve. Modern lever type full flow ball valves are a lot better, but they still rely on a nylon liner within which the ball rotates which I think are less heat resistant than an all metal gate.

Desp

Thanks for the explanation. I suppose I've always used high quality Ball valve - industrial quality, not domestic in my working life - things like Worcester and Swagelok on Water, Steam and Condensate. I'd always go for a ball valve, and dont think I've ever specified a gate valve in 35 years.
I guess it shows how different areas of engineering do things differently
Logged

21 tube Kloben Panel/250L Megaflow, 1.68kWp Solar PV - 7 x 240W Sanyo Panels. Morso Squirrel WBS
linesrg
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1121



WWW
« Reply #33 on: September 12, 2018, 10:15:45 AM »

Good Morning All,

This is something by way of an update on where we are with my Solar ET system. The installers have made somewhere between 3 and 4 visits, only one of which either my wife have been here for. The tubes had been sheeted since June through to a week ago.

The initial attempt revolved around seeing if the system could hold circa 3bar pressure which it did until the system was powered up at which point all pressure was lost and air could clearly be heard in the pipework.

I forwarded them 'advice' about dropping the system pressure to 1bar. I didn't get any reply to this but the next time I observed the gauge this appears to be what they did.

When I got back from my last job offshore the sheeting had disappeared and the pressure was back down to zero.

Yesterday was quite sunny and the system was operating but had me scratching my head.

Firstly it has to be said there as no sound of aerated water when the system kicked off so that has to be a positive. The way it was operating was different to what I've observed before (short cycling) but this might have been due to the presence of high cloud and not enough energy available. Later in the afternoon when there was less cloud saw it operating for longer periods.

I switched the GSHP on to 'Automatic Heating' as an experiment and it put the EHS to 'Active' and used the energy in the EHS to circulate the central heating. That's the system functioning as it is meant to along with the Immersun diverting Solar PV energy.

I used the EHS to heat the DHW as well just after lunch. Following my shower last night the EHS was pulled down to 40oC before the GSHP cut in to finish the DHW heating.

Overnight the EHS has been pulled down to 27oC as it has given up energy to the central heating meaning the GSHP compressor was running this morning to provide heating. I've switched it off as I don't really need it.

Currently the sun is working its way up and around. The Immersun is diverting Solar PV to the EHS and I'm just waiting for the sun to fall on the Solar ET although we have a thin high cloud again (cirrus).

Regards

Richard
Logged

1.28kW on a Lorentz ETATRACK1000 + 1.44kW/ SB3000TL-21 (FIT), 1.28kW/ SB1700 (ROO/FIT). CTC GSi12 heat pump/Ecosol/Flowbox 8010e/Gledhill ASL0085 EHS/3off Navitron 4720AL Solar ET & Immersun T1060/T1070/T1090. 3.375kW/ SMA SB3600TL-21 and a Sunny Island 4.4M-12 c/w 15.2kWh battery and a Renault Zoe.
stannn
Global Moderator
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 5229



« Reply #34 on: September 12, 2018, 11:30:01 AM »

I never pressurise to more than one bar and, yes, the presence of cloud slows heat collection dramatically.
Stan
Logged

2.45 kWp PV (Navitron supply), 40 evacuated tubes (Navitron supply), Clearview 650 log burner with back-boiler heating cottage and water, 2 off 50W border collies, 1 off 35W cat, 1 off 25W cat.
Tinbum
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1169


« Reply #35 on: September 12, 2018, 12:04:25 PM »

These systems can be very frustrating. My system has been working perfectly but did have a very small leak but it was minuscule. This year it went into stagnation and I re pressurized. A couple of weeks later it did the same. I pressurized and it did the same again. Can I find a leak- no. I wondered about the coil in the cylinder but it can't be that as the DHW pressure is higher. I'm baffled. It can't be the expansion vessel as i could have filled that up many times over.  Huh
Logged

85no 58mm solar thermal tubes, 28.5Kw PV, 3 x Sunny Backup 5048, 3x Sunny Island 5048, 2795 Ah (135kWh) (c20) Rolls batteries 48v, Atmos wood gasification boiler, Brosley wood burner, 2000lt buffer tank and 250lt DHW
linesrg
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1121



WWW
« Reply #36 on: September 12, 2018, 12:13:16 PM »

Good Afternoon All,

As I type this the Solar ET pump is running at 100% and there is some pressure showing on the gauge as per the attached photo. Still no sounds of aerated water.

Regards

Richard


* Solar ET gauge.jpg (546.4 KB, 4032x3024 - viewed 289 times.)
Logged

1.28kW on a Lorentz ETATRACK1000 + 1.44kW/ SB3000TL-21 (FIT), 1.28kW/ SB1700 (ROO/FIT). CTC GSi12 heat pump/Ecosol/Flowbox 8010e/Gledhill ASL0085 EHS/3off Navitron 4720AL Solar ET & Immersun T1060/T1070/T1090. 3.375kW/ SMA SB3600TL-21 and a Sunny Island 4.4M-12 c/w 15.2kWh battery and a Renault Zoe.
linesrg
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1121



WWW
« Reply #37 on: September 15, 2018, 12:45:16 PM »

Good Afternoon All,

As it was a pleasant morning I went out and attended to some minor jobs with the Solar ET. I've lagged the air ejector, tidied up a couple of bits disturbed by the installers installing/ removing the protective sheeting.

Whilst up there I noted that the way the installers had strapped the pipework to the wall left something to be desired. As can be seen the internal ribbed pipework is visible at one point. I re-attched using the same strapping but with a bit more slack.

The other day the whole system was working as intended i.e. the Solar ET was heating the EHS, the Immersun was diverting the Solar PV to the EHS and the heat pump was using the EHS to provide domestic heating and then the E159 error re-appeared. This time I left the USB until the following day and then sent the data to CTC. This has allowed them to identify the software error. This error wasn't occurring prior to the last software update. The installers have been tasked with coming around and uploading some revised software.

Regards

Richard


* IMG_1909.jpg (96.85 KB, 1280x960 - viewed 265 times.)

* IMG_1911.jpg (190.87 KB, 1280x960 - viewed 250 times.)

* IMG_1915 (1).jpg (143.47 KB, 971x1280 - viewed 240 times.)
Logged

1.28kW on a Lorentz ETATRACK1000 + 1.44kW/ SB3000TL-21 (FIT), 1.28kW/ SB1700 (ROO/FIT). CTC GSi12 heat pump/Ecosol/Flowbox 8010e/Gledhill ASL0085 EHS/3off Navitron 4720AL Solar ET & Immersun T1060/T1070/T1090. 3.375kW/ SMA SB3600TL-21 and a Sunny Island 4.4M-12 c/w 15.2kWh battery and a Renault Zoe.
linesrg
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1121



WWW
« Reply #38 on: March 15, 2019, 07:43:50 PM »

Good Evening All,

Clearly I have too much time on my hands whilst stuck out here waiting for the bad wx to blow through this weekend. There are still 'issues' i.e. no pressure with this system although it was functioning whilst I was home last time.

The picture below is one transferred from the Heat Pump Install thread and would appear to show quite clearly that the expansion vessel for this system is anything but mounted below the level of the pump in the adjacent pumping unit as would appear to what different installation 'manuals' I've been looking at on the internet advise is correct.

One job on my list when I get home is to see if I can shuffle the pumping unit up some and shuffle the expansion vessel down (the latter I know will be limited by the need to access the Schraeder valve on the bottom).

Regards

Richard

Logged

1.28kW on a Lorentz ETATRACK1000 + 1.44kW/ SB3000TL-21 (FIT), 1.28kW/ SB1700 (ROO/FIT). CTC GSi12 heat pump/Ecosol/Flowbox 8010e/Gledhill ASL0085 EHS/3off Navitron 4720AL Solar ET & Immersun T1060/T1070/T1090. 3.375kW/ SMA SB3600TL-21 and a Sunny Island 4.4M-12 c/w 15.2kWh battery and a Renault Zoe.
rogeriko
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1392



WWW
« Reply #39 on: March 15, 2019, 08:21:26 PM »

You need to get a little pressure in there. Just use a garden hose and give it a squirt of water, probably one second will do the trick.
Logged

linesrg
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1121



WWW
« Reply #40 on: March 15, 2019, 08:42:40 PM »

rogeriko,

I can only hope it will be that simple. Whilst the panels were sheeted up last year the installers did have it pressed up to 1bar and the pressure held for several days and was 'lost' shortly after system start-up.

Kingspan Varisol installation instructions state that - 'The expansion vessel must be located below the level of the connection from the pump station.' If you check out Section 7.10 of the document at http://www.solarpanelsplus.com/pdfs/installation-manual-2.pdf you'll see a pretty crappy picture but one that clearly shows the expansion vessel clearly mounted below the pumping unit.

I'm not a plumber but if industry guidance tells me that is how an expansion vessel ought to be mounted who am I to disagree and I have to go through a process eliminating all possible causes of the problems with my system.

Regards

Richard
Logged

1.28kW on a Lorentz ETATRACK1000 + 1.44kW/ SB3000TL-21 (FIT), 1.28kW/ SB1700 (ROO/FIT). CTC GSi12 heat pump/Ecosol/Flowbox 8010e/Gledhill ASL0085 EHS/3off Navitron 4720AL Solar ET & Immersun T1060/T1070/T1090. 3.375kW/ SMA SB3600TL-21 and a Sunny Island 4.4M-12 c/w 15.2kWh battery and a Renault Zoe.
Tinbum
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1169


« Reply #41 on: March 15, 2019, 08:49:45 PM »

I eventually found the problem with my system which turned out to be a leak inside the header of one of the panels. Solved it with central heating leak fix from screwfix- local and was going past anyway. No problems since and the leak was pretty large in the end.
Logged

85no 58mm solar thermal tubes, 28.5Kw PV, 3 x Sunny Backup 5048, 3x Sunny Island 5048, 2795 Ah (135kWh) (c20) Rolls batteries 48v, Atmos wood gasification boiler, Brosley wood burner, 2000lt buffer tank and 250lt DHW
rogeriko
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1392



WWW
« Reply #42 on: March 15, 2019, 09:41:43 PM »

The expansion vessel must be below the filling point with the pipe going downwards so when you fill the system there is no air in the pipe and the air on top of the bladder can rise and escape. Obviously there was air left in the pipework from an incorrect install. Take the pressure vessel off the wall and put it temporarily lower down and then give the system a shot of water. Just remember when you connect a hose pipe the pipe must be full of water, no air in the pipe or you are just putting air in the system. Is there an air vent somewhere on the system? If the pipe has filled with water and the air has escaped then all will be well next time you fill it. If there is air going around the system you are going to have to have the system refilled properly. Easy to do I can tell you how.
« Last Edit: March 15, 2019, 09:50:55 PM by rogeriko » Logged

linesrg
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1121



WWW
« Reply #43 on: March 16, 2019, 01:06:08 PM »

rogeriko,

I'll revert once I've had a go if necessary, thanks for responding.

Regards

Richard
Logged

1.28kW on a Lorentz ETATRACK1000 + 1.44kW/ SB3000TL-21 (FIT), 1.28kW/ SB1700 (ROO/FIT). CTC GSi12 heat pump/Ecosol/Flowbox 8010e/Gledhill ASL0085 EHS/3off Navitron 4720AL Solar ET & Immersun T1060/T1070/T1090. 3.375kW/ SMA SB3600TL-21 and a Sunny Island 4.4M-12 c/w 15.2kWh battery and a Renault Zoe.
linesrg
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1121



WWW
« Reply #44 on: March 22, 2019, 09:48:47 AM »

Good Morning All,

Apart from the still obvious sound of air in the system and no pressure there Solar ET system appears to be functioning still. According to the heat pump we've made 69kW from it.

I'm still aiming to do some work on this system but there are only so many hours in the day (going in and out of Aberdeen twice yesterday didn't help).

Following something I read at one site I've reduced the flow rate from the maximum 6ltrs/ min set by the installers to 4ltrs/ min on the basis of 1ltr flow for each square metre of panel. Hopefully this will make the system more efficient by increasing 'residence time' or whatever the correct technical phrase is.

Regards

Richard

Logged

1.28kW on a Lorentz ETATRACK1000 + 1.44kW/ SB3000TL-21 (FIT), 1.28kW/ SB1700 (ROO/FIT). CTC GSi12 heat pump/Ecosol/Flowbox 8010e/Gledhill ASL0085 EHS/3off Navitron 4720AL Solar ET & Immersun T1060/T1070/T1090. 3.375kW/ SMA SB3600TL-21 and a Sunny Island 4.4M-12 c/w 15.2kWh battery and a Renault Zoe.
Pages: 1 2 [3] 4   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.20 | SMF © 2013, Simple Machines
SMFAds for Free Forums
Simple Audio Video Embedder
Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!