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Author Topic: Solar Thermal Production @ Courtiestown  (Read 2892 times)
linesrg
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« on: June 02, 2017, 12:56:19 PM »

Good Afternoon All,

Based on solar data from [url]http://www.efficientenergysaving.co.uk/solar-irradiance-calculator.html/url] we get 872kwhr/ m2 annually.

Using the formula:-

Annual output (kWh) = 0.44 x annual horizontal solar irradiation (kWh/m2) x aperture area (m2) = 0.44 x 872 x (1.26 x 3) = 1450kWh.

For the month of May this gives a theoretical average output of 233kW. According to the software in the heat pump we've actually had 228kW which is a pretty close correlation.

Regards

Richard
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16 BP380 on a Lorentz ETATRACK1000/SB1700, 16 Chinese 80W/SB1700, 16 BP380/SMA SB1700. CTC GSi12 + Ecosol + Flowbox 8010e/Gledhill ASL0085 EHS/3 Navitron 4720AL solar ET panels and Immersun T1060/ T1070/ T1090. 7 Tianwei 235W/ Aurora PVI 3.6kW/ Growatt SP2000 c/w 5kWhr battery and a Renault Zoe
Fintray
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« Reply #1 on: June 02, 2017, 08:43:25 PM »

Richard

That's a useful amount of energy each day, isn't your system also using this heat for space heating via the thermal store?
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linesrg
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« Reply #2 on: June 03, 2017, 09:18:44 AM »

Ian,

Yes all the energy goes into the EHS. At this time of year there is little demand for space heating. As I think I've commented elsewhere this leaves you with a 'deadzone' between 30 & 50 degrees in the EHS where you can't make any use of the energy.

More use will be made when the non-electric shower is installed next week.

Regards

Richard
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16 BP380 on a Lorentz ETATRACK1000/SB1700, 16 Chinese 80W/SB1700, 16 BP380/SMA SB1700. CTC GSi12 + Ecosol + Flowbox 8010e/Gledhill ASL0085 EHS/3 Navitron 4720AL solar ET panels and Immersun T1060/ T1070/ T1090. 7 Tianwei 235W/ Aurora PVI 3.6kW/ Growatt SP2000 c/w 5kWhr battery and a Renault Zoe
linesrg
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« Reply #3 on: July 03, 2017, 09:00:57 AM »

Good Morning All,

As I commented in the Solar PV section it has been the wettest June on record since 1910 up here in Scotland so not surprisingly both solar PV and solar ET output are down on expectations. According to the heat pump display we made 178kWhr against the 231kWhr forecast.

Regards

Richard
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16 BP380 on a Lorentz ETATRACK1000/SB1700, 16 Chinese 80W/SB1700, 16 BP380/SMA SB1700. CTC GSi12 + Ecosol + Flowbox 8010e/Gledhill ASL0085 EHS/3 Navitron 4720AL solar ET panels and Immersun T1060/ T1070/ T1090. 7 Tianwei 235W/ Aurora PVI 3.6kW/ Growatt SP2000 c/w 5kWhr battery and a Renault Zoe
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« Reply #4 on: October 05, 2017, 10:09:47 PM »

Good Evening,

About two weeks after I went back to work i.e. the last week in July our system started producing some strange figures. Unfortunately through my being off California and my wife not really understanding the system an analysis of why this was didn't happen.

In early September I sent an EM to the installer detailing the problem as the heat pump was telling us we were producing silly amounts of kHr and this clearly wasn't happening. As it happened the heat pump manufacturer's representative was up in Aberdeenshire later that week and both were able to go over and look at the system.

They gave the system a once over and left having not determined the cause of the problem.

I got home last Thursday and having gotten various things done which needed doing I set about getting to the bottom of the problem myself.

I guess I'd better detail the issue. The Solar ET system circulating pump is meant to cut in when the temperature of the water in the system is 7 degrees warmer than the heat store. There was no doubting it was doing this. The pump kicks off at 100% and then modulates as it monitors the rate of temperature drop across the tubes.

Problem was the temperature wasn't reducing and the pump continued at 100% essentially continuously.

Switching the solar ET bit off and then back on did nothing. Switching the heat pump on and off didn't do anything either.

After a bit of head scratching this morning I pulled the insulation back from where the solar pipework entered the heat store and it was pretty obvious there was no hot water circulating anywhere - fairly obvious conclusion was that despite the pump running at 100% the system was clearly airlocked.

The heat pump determines the energy derived from the pump velocity and the temperatures recorded for the solar energy in and out of the tubes so as the temperatures weren't going down and the pump was running at 100% all the time clearly large figures would ensue.

I have spoken to the installer this afternoon and am waiting on a crew turning up with a charging rig to flush the system through.

I'm not sure how much useful energy has been 'lost' but on a relatively sunny day like today energy could have been gained in the heat store and used for the low level background heating currently in use.

I haven't named any names here and I'll leave you to form your own conclusions I know I have mine.

Regards

Richard
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16 BP380 on a Lorentz ETATRACK1000/SB1700, 16 Chinese 80W/SB1700, 16 BP380/SMA SB1700. CTC GSi12 + Ecosol + Flowbox 8010e/Gledhill ASL0085 EHS/3 Navitron 4720AL solar ET panels and Immersun T1060/ T1070/ T1090. 7 Tianwei 235W/ Aurora PVI 3.6kW/ Growatt SP2000 c/w 5kWhr battery and a Renault Zoe
dhaslam
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« Reply #5 on: October 06, 2017, 01:09:14 AM »

It is always useful to have a flow meter in the system to make sure that there is proper circulation.
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« Reply #6 on: October 15, 2017, 09:32:50 PM »

dhaslam,

The system does have a flowmeter, it is hidden in the CTC Ecosol unit which is up in the Utility Room attic space and doesn't lend itself to being easily seen. In theory somebody should be coming around to sort the problem out tomorrow......................................

Regards

Richard
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16 BP380 on a Lorentz ETATRACK1000/SB1700, 16 Chinese 80W/SB1700, 16 BP380/SMA SB1700. CTC GSi12 + Ecosol + Flowbox 8010e/Gledhill ASL0085 EHS/3 Navitron 4720AL solar ET panels and Immersun T1060/ T1070/ T1090. 7 Tianwei 235W/ Aurora PVI 3.6kW/ Growatt SP2000 c/w 5kWhr battery and a Renault Zoe
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« Reply #7 on: December 14, 2017, 01:50:04 PM »

Yes having read that I can agree with you there
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linesrg
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« Reply #8 on: June 19, 2018, 03:08:59 PM »

Good Afternoon All,

I'm going to resurrect this thread iro the ongoing issues with my Solar ET system. Here I'm going to be asking for some specific guidance from the more knowledgeable persons on this forum. In saying I intend to look at my system before letting the installers back in I want to be sure of what I'm doing.

Having looked at the CTC Flowbox it is essentially similar to the unit Navitron sold at one point.

There are two connection points (both 3/4" BSP). One on the side of the safety valve (I must determine what this is set at) and the other immediately above the flow control underneath the pump itself.

Question No.1 - which connection do I connect the sprayer to? Logic tells me that it should be the flow control connection point.

I also need to check what pressure lies in the expansion chamber. Currently the system pressure is zero. It was at 2 bar at one point since I came home in September.

There is a 22mm pipe leading from the safety valve outlet to a 10ltr container - as recommended in the attached document.

I need an idiot's guide to checking the expansion vessel pressure. We have bicycle pumps to inflate as required.

Any comments/ advice over that already offered on the 'Show us Yours' thread appreciated.

Regards

Richard


* Trial.jpg (485.78 KB, 1239x1754 - viewed 113 times.)
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16 BP380 on a Lorentz ETATRACK1000/SB1700, 16 Chinese 80W/SB1700, 16 BP380/SMA SB1700. CTC GSi12 + Ecosol + Flowbox 8010e/Gledhill ASL0085 EHS/3 Navitron 4720AL solar ET panels and Immersun T1060/ T1070/ T1090. 7 Tianwei 235W/ Aurora PVI 3.6kW/ Growatt SP2000 c/w 5kWhr battery and a Renault Zoe
linesrg
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« Reply #9 on: June 19, 2018, 04:48:01 PM »

Good Afternoon All (again),

Grabbing this particular bull by the horns I'm looking into expansion vessels. I have found a spreadsheet on the Flamco Group site as at https://flamcogroup.com/media/files/calculationtools/calc_eng_solar_v2016.xls.

I have entered the following information:-

1. 3off 4720AL contain 3.3ltrs of liquid
2. I'm calling the total pipework involved in the system 35mtrs which is all 22mm so equals 13.3ltrs of liquid.
3. Call the heat exchanger 0.1ltr
4. The top of the panels is no more than 3mtrs above the expansion vessel possibly nearer 2.
5. I think the collectors I have qualify as Group2 - difficult to drain???

Assuming I haven't made a simple mistake the spreadsheet tells me I need a 35ltr expansion vessel which is almost certainly larger than the one I have fitted. I'll need to eyeball the one I have.

Comments invited.

Regards

Richard
« Last Edit: June 19, 2018, 05:44:50 PM by linesrg » Logged

16 BP380 on a Lorentz ETATRACK1000/SB1700, 16 Chinese 80W/SB1700, 16 BP380/SMA SB1700. CTC GSi12 + Ecosol + Flowbox 8010e/Gledhill ASL0085 EHS/3 Navitron 4720AL solar ET panels and Immersun T1060/ T1070/ T1090. 7 Tianwei 235W/ Aurora PVI 3.6kW/ Growatt SP2000 c/w 5kWhr battery and a Renault Zoe
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« Reply #10 on: June 19, 2018, 05:07:03 PM »

I can't help you with setting the pressure vessel, however if its goosed (internally) it generally goes thud if you tap it, or a hollow sound if not, is the system pressure zero? if so has it escaped via the safey or in my case the air bleeder o-ring was leaking?
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Westie
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« Reply #11 on: June 19, 2018, 06:20:09 PM »

Good Afternoon All (again),

Grabbing this particular bull by the horns I'm looking into expansion vessels. I have found a spreadsheet on the Flamco Group site as at https://flamcogroup.com/media/files/calculationtools/calc_eng_solar_v2016.xls.

I have entered the following information:-

1. 3off 4720AL contain 3.3ltrs of liquid
2. I'm calling the total pipework involved in the system 35mtrs which is all 22mm so equals 13.3ltrs of liquid.
3. Call the heat exchanger 0.1ltr
4. The top of the panels is no more than 3mtrs above the expansion vessel possibly nearer 2.
5. I think the collectors I have qualify as Group2 - difficult to drain???

Assuming I haven't made a simple mistake the spreadsheet tells me I need a 35ltr expansion vessel which is almost certainly larger than the one I have fitted. I'll need to eyeball the one I have.

Comments invited.

Regards

Richard

The pressure vessel is sized in line with the coolant volume, your system has a lot of coolant because they've used 22mm piping. That was the recommendation when ST systems first came along but the advice soon changed to recommend  10mm as this reduced the coolant volume so it heated up more quickly, plumbing was also easier and of course the accumulator was smaller.
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« Reply #12 on: June 19, 2018, 06:37:51 PM »

Westie,

I have to be somewhat guarded in my replies on this matter as the installer, or one of his employees, could be reading what is posted and I want to ensure that I don't create problems for myself.

Anybody who has been following my postings on the Solar ET system I have will be well aware that things haven't worked correctly since Day 1. I think it is fair to say that the installers lacked experience in these systems, the fact that the system still isn't working properly after 18 months is simple testament to this fact.

My wish is that I end up with a working system and that the installers learn something from it. I can see I'll need to go back to them with the spreadsheet findings.

They have yet to respond to the EM I sent them this morning about successes people have had on here filling their systems with 'garden sprayers'............

Regards

Richard
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16 BP380 on a Lorentz ETATRACK1000/SB1700, 16 Chinese 80W/SB1700, 16 BP380/SMA SB1700. CTC GSi12 + Ecosol + Flowbox 8010e/Gledhill ASL0085 EHS/3 Navitron 4720AL solar ET panels and Immersun T1060/ T1070/ T1090. 7 Tianwei 235W/ Aurora PVI 3.6kW/ Growatt SP2000 c/w 5kWhr battery and a Renault Zoe
dimengineer
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« Reply #13 on: June 19, 2018, 09:32:03 PM »

An alternative way of pressurizing your system is to you the domestic mains water pressure. Every couple of years my system needs a top up, and I just connect the garden hose to bring it up to 2 bar. 20 minute job. I fitted a standard hozelok hose connector to the filling point.
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linesrg
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« Reply #14 on: June 20, 2018, 07:45:35 AM »

Good Morning All,

So my good lady wife, Kate, goes to the house yesterday evening to do a couple of jobs and grab me photo's of any ID sticker on the expansion vessel.

Well I do have some blurred and, in some cases, laterally reversed, photo's of a sticker on an expansion vessel. I now know not to make any assumptions. She managed to take pictures of the expansion vessel for the central heating.

I had thought it would be obvious which expansion vessel was associated with which system.............................

Regards

Richard
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16 BP380 on a Lorentz ETATRACK1000/SB1700, 16 Chinese 80W/SB1700, 16 BP380/SMA SB1700. CTC GSi12 + Ecosol + Flowbox 8010e/Gledhill ASL0085 EHS/3 Navitron 4720AL solar ET panels and Immersun T1060/ T1070/ T1090. 7 Tianwei 235W/ Aurora PVI 3.6kW/ Growatt SP2000 c/w 5kWhr battery and a Renault Zoe
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