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Author Topic: New Build DHW+CH, Wood fired boiler with thermal store. Looking for advice!  (Read 2217 times)
MWood_UK
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« Reply #15 on: June 14, 2017, 08:39:25 PM »

I must say i have never seen the 'integrated' pv panels until i just googled them! Though i had mentioned to someone a while back now that they would look a look better if you designed them to replace the roofing rather than fitted on top of the roof... Clearly i was beaten to another good idea! 
Must say the roof tile style ones look pretty neat! (although we have a slate roof lol)
Cables are definitely easier to retro fit than pipework as well!


The loading valve that came with the range is an ESBE LTC261 with built in pump...  I know this is going to be a stupid question, but the pump looks a little on the small side!
Do i still need a circulation pump on the boiler loop or does the one on the loading valve replace that?
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biff
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« Reply #16 on: June 14, 2017, 09:11:46 PM »

Nope !,
       You need to keep your PV panels cool , Raise them up and let the air get in behind them to keep them cool..
  If they heat up too much, You lose a good 10% to 15% of the power.
                                             Biff
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An unpaid Navitron volunteer,who has been living off-grid,powered by wind and solar,each year better than the last one.
todthedog
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« Reply #17 on: June 15, 2017, 06:51:41 AM »

Totally agree with Biff integrated is standard in France, due to the way payments are made. Built in power loss heard of several leaky roofs!
 The panels work better cool.
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dhaslam
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« Reply #18 on: June 15, 2017, 07:52:12 AM »

Only the loading valve pump is needed and it may run on a low setting because there will already be some natural circulation.
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DHW 250 litre cylinder  60 X 47mm tubes
Heating  180,000 litre straw insulated seasonal store, 90X58mm tubes + 7 sqm flat collectors, 1 kW VAWT, 3 kW heatpump plus Walltherm gasifying stove
MWood_UK
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« Reply #19 on: June 15, 2017, 09:03:02 AM »

Only the loading valve pump is needed and it may run on a low setting because there will already be some natural circulation.

Awsome, cheers dude.
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MWood_UK
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« Reply #20 on: July 23, 2017, 09:54:44 AM »

Hey peeps,

Well its been a little while since i posted in this topic.... I thought i was onto a winner with getting a plumber in to do the heating system! Looks like they have dropped off the face of the earth again!

WTF is wrong?
What am i saying wrong when asking about getting the 1st fix work done?

I have been waiting (and chasing) several plumbers now and zip.
Thats a total of 5 different recommended plumbers that have been round said 'yea sure we'll get a quote out to you' and have just vanished.

Surely the system that is going in isn't that way out leftfield, or even particularly complicated is it?
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eabadger
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« Reply #21 on: July 23, 2017, 10:13:48 AM »

i think it isnt the norm, diy would be best route, you up for that?
unless you want a basic system i think you will struggle with a plumber, unless you find one who has a similar system at home.

steve
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1600w PV main array at 24v, excide 2v 1000a forklift cells now x 2, 320w PV secondary array at 12v. Enfield 1944 ex RAF 5.6kw diesel genset (now in pieces, big ends gone), Petter AC1 28v diesel charging set at 2.8kw.
1kw wind turbine.
26kw wood stove back boiler to underfloor heating and dhw
MWood_UK
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« Reply #22 on: July 23, 2017, 11:01:35 AM »

I'm up for the DIY route, i am plumbing savvy!
My problem is that its a new build and the heating system needs signed off on etc.

I honestly didnt think that it was a complex system though! solid fuel boiler (bathroom  towel rails as dump rads), store cylinder, mains pressure DHW and a 2 zone CH with a total of 8 rads (4 up, 4 down)

Pipework i can do with little to no problems, i could use a little advice on any additional air bleed valves and what size pressure vessels for the sealed CH...
However I have little to no knowledge of fitting the controllers/time clocks... a conventional timer for the boiler is not necessary as its solid fuel (its on if i light the stove and off when it goes out)

So the timer/controller is for nothing more than opening the zone valve and the dump circuit?
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Countrypaul
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« Reply #23 on: July 23, 2017, 11:04:30 AM »

I have had the same experience with plumbers, several have said yes will give you a quote and then we have never heard from them again adn they don't reply to email, phone calls or anything else. In our case it was for fitting and plumbing in a theral store with WBS, ASHP, UFH, etc plus first fix on 2 bathrooms and the pipework for the kitchen, utlility, and downstair WC.

In several cases I think the TS scared them as they had not ever seen one let alone fitted one. We eventually found a plumber who is much more thena plumber, being a joiner as well, used to be part P, but no longer does electrics, however does do plastering and tiling. As a result he has taken the bathrooms (or at least will when finished) from bare through to complete. He has also fitted the thermal store and associated pipework - although I bought this as a DIY suitable system through TMSthermalstore as I thought I would never find a plumber capable or willing. The plumber is Polish but has worked in Germany and Scandinavia before the UK where several of the concepts that he has not met in the Uk before he says are standard over there.

I have to say don't give up, just keep trying and try friends/family for recommendations on plumbers. Ours came from my wife posting on the schools mothers forum or some such!

Good luck



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eabadger
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« Reply #24 on: July 23, 2017, 11:17:44 AM »

i know the uk insists on signing off everything, except it would appear flammable cladding.
but challenge it or work with a plumber, you do donkey work he advises and signs off.
i remember putting my first uk heating system on myself maybe 27 years ago, i decided sensible place for boiler was in extension loft, no one would do it even though british gas said no problem, so i did myself from scratch and then paid british gas to sign off, saved a fortune, can you still do that?
i still laugh that the uk changed pipe sizes to comply with eu, aledgedly, all pipe in france is imperial just measured in metric, so 15mm 21mm  is 1/2" 21mm 27mm is 3/4, still has the imp sizes embossed in most fittings.

check out why and who will sign off, and check what you can do, i would think first fix was no issue?
but living here i get blazay, as it is up to yourself to make safe.

steve
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1600w PV main array at 24v, excide 2v 1000a forklift cells now x 2, 320w PV secondary array at 12v. Enfield 1944 ex RAF 5.6kw diesel genset (now in pieces, big ends gone), Petter AC1 28v diesel charging set at 2.8kw.
1kw wind turbine.
26kw wood stove back boiler to underfloor heating and dhw
JonG
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« Reply #25 on: July 23, 2017, 04:27:18 PM »

No many about who are either qualified to do the wet side of stoves, or get into link up systems etc. We get quite a bit because of this. You can sign it off yourself under Building Regs notice, but it is quite a specialist field which is why many of the trade forego it.

I love it cos its more challenging than the norm with a huge variety of potential options and solutions. We have been using NRG Awareness manifolds quite a bit for solid fuel, check them out for ideas.

This is an NRG with a WBS, unvented cylinder and oil cooker.


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MWood_UK
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« Reply #26 on: July 25, 2017, 06:02:26 PM »

One of the fella's i work with has given me a plumbers name and number to try as one last attempt! He has just done the plumbing for his old man's new build, which is an almost identical setup to what we are wanting to install with a Thermal store but with back boiler stoves instead of a Range...
So, he should be able to do the install, only problem is hes about 45 Miles away!

Hoping he will at least be able to advise me on the DIY route and make an appearance for some easy money!  fingers crossed!

CountryPaul : Cheers dude, I'll take a look at "TMSthermalstore" see what i can rustle up on there too!

JonG:  Shocked Errr... Thats just an example right! (ok, the more i look at it the less complex it gets, but i have no idea what that little brass dodad is with the red top or the coupler thing right next to it just to the left of the tank stat? i see the group set up at the top coming from the expansion vessel and the bottle vent on top of the manifold.)
That black insulated box is just the manifold isn't it?
But the manifold, all those pumps and the rest of the pipework has me lost without explanation!
 
When i said simple i kinda meant sim-pull. Direct to store WBS with loading valve. Vented TS and CH loop with a 'Honeywell B52 3 port zoning valve' (recommended by Biff as very reliable, I was originally gonna just go with 2 CH coils and pumps for super simple independant 2 zones lol)
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JonG
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« Reply #27 on: July 26, 2017, 07:08:26 AM »

The red topped device is an auto air vent, the coupler is a single check valve to prevent unwanted reverse flow in the circuit when off. The manifold is a bit more than a manifold, in that it also has a bypass chamber that allows the wbs to draw the hottest water back on the return.

Basically each heat producer and each circuit has its own pump, so this has 1 for the cooker/range, 1 for the wbs, 1 for the cyl and 1 for each of the 3 heating circuits.

Your set up sounds fine too, this is the beauty of solid fuel, there are so many ways to do it. I would probably seal the heating system and put the stove on a plate though, to improve the integrity and quality of the system water long term.
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MWood_UK
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« Reply #28 on: July 26, 2017, 04:10:00 PM »

Sorry, i badly worded that....
It meant to read "a vented TS and a sealed CH!" or i wouldn't need a pressure vessel for my CH Smiley

Oh yea  facepalm didn't recognise that as a check valve, i cant remember the last time i saw a 22mm check valve lol
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JonG
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« Reply #29 on: July 26, 2017, 08:18:35 PM »

I would still plate the stove and seal the TS though. The velocity in a TS is so slow that the sludge builds up in there and try as you might you will get it eventually, but more so if the store is vented.

It also means that the low velocity can assist on the biggest circuit in terms of removing en-trained oxygen which is the cause of the breakdown (amongst other things). Again the low velocity is your friend, so an auto in the top gradually percolates it out.

If you are having another source of heat you can also 2-pipe the buffer to reduce the impact of high flow rates which de-stratify it quicker.
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