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Author Topic: Electric Vehicle pollution  (Read 1597 times)
TheFairway
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« Reply #15 on: August 06, 2017, 07:37:56 PM »

There is no single culprit, no single solution. Its going to take lots of different changes and time, but if you can reduce the effects of the bigger culprits early in the change cycle, you will get bigger benefits sooner.

I am personally working on a project that will improve urban air quality.Its not the solution to air quality, but it will make a difference when it is needed most, allowing problen areas to be targeted when they need to be targeted, before problems get out of hand. Its a relatively quick but partial fix, but better than waiting 50-100x longer for economic, social and other technological solutions to get their s**t together.

EV's are a bit like that, but longer time scales, but if you can reduce the problem by 40% in 20 years, its very worthwhile. Maybe in 50-200 years time, society will have adapted enough to put the environment before themselves and air quality will be a non issue, but in the mean time, its the quick fixes that will give us the best chance.

Of course, we may not get the chance.
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biff
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« Reply #16 on: August 06, 2017, 08:06:44 PM »

This is a good interesting thread,
                   I was slow to comment, there are so many good points on both sides of the debate,
 However, Ken has won it for me, Charging his EV with his PV..That has to be the winner. no one can deny that.
As a matter of interest, Martin was quite anti-EV for a while. He reconed that the amount of chemicals in the batteries and the extra load on the power stations was well behind the small light 1,000cc cars
carbon footprint and back then he had a very valid point that I agreed with. These days the new battery technology, regenerative braking and keener footprint credentials are winning it for the EV,,
Especially,,charging directly off the PV. That is about as green as you can possibly go.
                                                       Biff
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MR GUS
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« Reply #17 on: August 06, 2017, 09:28:39 PM »

The electric bike never gets a look in these days, & yet is as important as ever.

The papers seem to go for the go-cycle & others costing the best part of 2.5k ...this isn't real, that is't going to change mindsets, we still have a massive problem there which could really ease things along.
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Nickel2
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« Reply #18 on: August 06, 2017, 11:28:13 PM »

Bicycles? Don't start me on bicycles!
Across the way from me over the river Blackwater, there used to be a cycle shop that specialised in high-end road/hybrid/all terrain bicycles. The lad that ran it did so with money from his parents, who were trying to get him started on his way in life.
The List price of many of his products on display was up in the £2.5k - £3k range. He did not sell many due to his lack of business sense and the fountain of dosh that came from his well-meaning parents.
The books did not balance, the business went bust, the shop was shut. All of the stock was written off against tax. My mate who worked in the garage, (owned by the lad's parents), told me of the bikes in stock being stripped for spares and the parts sold. I was offered genuine legal parts of top-model stock at about 20% of what you would pay in the high street. Unsold frames etc were tossed into the skip. (To be sold later by the local bin-dippers as new-old stock)
How does he do these bits for so little? says I. The answer from my mate is that the buy-in price for a £2500 bike is about £500-600.
From that day I have looked at the bicycle trade with great skepticism. I bought my bike 20 yrs ago for £279 from my friend who owns a shop and gave me a good price. He did not lose on the deal.
It is quite probable that E-bikes attract the same level of trade interest when it comes to profit.
Green? Popular? Yes Sir, being green today is new technology, so is bound to be a bit expensive.
Where there is demand, there is profit to be made - it is the way of the world.
N2
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MR GUS
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« Reply #19 on: August 06, 2017, 11:51:52 PM »

Point being that at 2.5k you may as well buy a car, hardly an incentive not to.
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Screw FITS ..it is, & always has been about the environment (said the penny-pinching Scotsman)
todthedog
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« Reply #20 on: August 07, 2017, 05:57:07 AM »

Converted my old bike for £420 wheel with motor, controller, battery and charger, and the shop did not do it for love.
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M
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« Reply #21 on: August 07, 2017, 08:02:32 AM »


You make very valid points there Mart, but (you knew too eh?) I believe a sensible tax system alongside legislation could get us all into frugal motors pretty quickly where no one would be at a considerable disadvantage on the road. All this performance car bull pooh needs to be treated like the irresponsible baloney it really is. Lets face it the average journey speed nowdays wouldn't bother a sprightly snail so why do the manufacturers keep convincing us that we need a car capable of 130mph wackoold

It shouldn't be beyond the wit of man for most of us to use a very frugal EV for 99% of our journeys and then either rent or dust off  a deisel burner to pull the caravan on the family holiday or to go beyond the nearest charging points. I know, you know and pretty much everyone else knows it ain't gonna happen, we will carry on happily killing ourselves off while looking the other way...........

Desp

Hiya. I think the idea of hiring a car for long trips probably makes sense already, even if you have an ICE as you get to choose the best car for the trip, rather than a compromise car for all duties. And the rental might be balanced off against wear and tear, increased depreciation (mileage on the clock) and the servicing costs (brought nearer by the extra mileage). But looking at the item on the leccy Bollinger (truck), that has a 6,000lb towing capacity is interesting, so we could hire a 'bigger' EV for trips, which helps with any EV compromises.

BTW, I was only really bothered with the lack of pull off in the Meriva, like you, top end is irrelevant these days, I'm not bothered, but even if the roads are full of slow cars, they will still be up to speed on roundabouts and main roads when you want to join, so I do tend to look at 0-30mph figs, not for racing, just for driveability - lesson learnt the hard way.
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biff
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« Reply #22 on: August 07, 2017, 09:56:26 AM »

It is a very satisfying feeling charging my Ebike of our pv,,
            It has gotta feel just absolutely awesome to charge your EV the same way..
 No fuel bills, no electricity bills. waytogo.!
                                 Biff
  Incidentally ,every rise in the cost of electricity here is accompanied by the locals moaning for ages afterwards..
 "Huh,! but you only get 9cents per unit from the ESB," ?,...........Nope, I don,t. I would not sell it for that.
  "But you have a standing charge,,"?                          ...........Nope,, no standing charge,
  "Well then you use gas to heat the place," ?              ...........Nope,, only for cooking and the house is heated some 8 months of the year for free.
                                I do offer solace and comfort, I explain sometimes,,especially to the disbelievers, that I feel isolated ,, that I feel locked out of society, that I know that i would be better off as a paying member of that ESB club and then be able to voice my disgust at their bills and unfair demands. Oh I miss that.!  Instead, I have to put up with having plenty of power during their outages ,enough to have the house and yard lit up like a Christmas tree while the Yellow ESB repair wagons rally round the local roads for days on end after each storm.
 
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dimengineer
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« Reply #23 on: August 07, 2017, 08:30:05 PM »

Public transport is not the answer - or at least its not a particularly good answer. I live in outer west london (Uxbridge) which is awash with public transport - buses and tubes at better than 10 minute frequency. However, they simply are not very convenient. A couple of examples: Tuesday evening I go to running club - which is in Eastcote, about 4 miles away. Driving - about 10 minutes. Tube - 10 mins to walk this end. 5 mins to wait. 10 mins travel time, 5 mins other end walk. Total 30 minutes. Repeat coming home when its 15 - 20 mins frequency post 10pm.
2nd example - Daughter used to work in Hayes - about 6 miles. Buses - one into Uxbridge, one to Hayes. Total travel time close to 1 hour - for 6 miles for goodness sake. So she drove, about 20 minutes.

I can see that in deepest Central London  public transport make sense, but given the £18 bn we've just spent on Crossrail it sure as hell aint cheap. Thats just 1 railway line.
For 90% of the population public transport just does not work terribly well. For a good 50% outside the cities, it don't work at all. 



No one thing is THE answer there are many changes we need to make, public transport is one of the more important but so too is changing peoples attitudes to having to drive everywhere, I am only kidding you understand but driving to a running club sounded a little amusing to me surrender

Desp

Yep, on the face of it, it does seem bonkers - but it's as much a social occasion as a running one. I could go running from my house and normally do, but Tuesday night is club night - for the age old human desire to meet with ones mates, and drink beer (after a run, of course  extrahappy)
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AndrewE
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« Reply #24 on: August 07, 2017, 09:40:19 PM »

Public transport is not the answer - or at least its not a particularly good answer. I live in outer west london (Uxbridge) which is awash with public transport - buses and tubes at better than 10 minute frequency. However, they simply are not very convenient. A couple of examples: Tuesday evening I go to running club - which is in Eastcote, about 4 miles away. Driving - about 10 minutes. Tube - 10 mins to walk this end. 5 mins to wait. 10 mins travel time, 5 mins other end walk. Total 30 minutes. Repeat coming home when its 15 - 20 mins frequency post 10pm.
2nd example - Daughter used to work in Hayes - about 6 miles. Buses - one into Uxbridge, one to Hayes. Total travel time close to 1 hour - for 6 miles for goodness sake. So she drove, about 20 minutes.

Those journeys look ideal for cycling to me (or cycling to a suitable point on the daughter's bus route.)

I really can't understand people who pretend they are going out to do energetic things, e.g. at a gym but can only get there by car - often less than a couple of miles!
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brackwell
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« Reply #25 on: August 08, 2017, 08:54:43 AM »

Folding bikes could play a big part. Cycle to the station,fold up and carry on,then opposite to work. Fold up and put somewhere safe at work.
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MR GUS
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« Reply #26 on: August 08, 2017, 09:32:19 AM »

We are less likely to have future investment in "fresh tracks", therefore to actually accommodate the common & lowly "bicycle" is a necessity to make non car travel a reality over distance, especially when the end destination is away from the city.

& as i've banged on about before, my local government, council etc made the Busway either a "walk to" or drive to facility that assumes you can get where you need to go by MORE slow, infrequent public transport rather than at the planning stage (it was a LONG process) including bikes, ..so much so no-one takes bikes on the buses, ..not to mention that fold ups are typically higher priced compared to the regular Halfords offerings.

There is I understand already an imposable limit to bikes allowed on trains, just like buses @ drivers discretion.
the stowed bike in a guard van is also a very unusual affair these days.

If elon is for real then perhaps he can sort out a non poncey priced well designed lightweight fold up bike for the next stage (seeing as he's driving design from the top down).

 

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« Reply #27 on: August 08, 2017, 11:50:59 AM »

It might help if there was secure bike parking near public transport. It is normal in Sweden. Shops have bike parking. I cannot think of a supermarket without bike parking.  I don't think I have ever seen more bikes being used than Copenhagen with Malmö a close second.
Recent UK visit  yummy mummies driving their little darlings to school in the latest Chelsea tractor.
We need a change of mindset.
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dimengineer
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« Reply #28 on: August 10, 2017, 09:04:11 PM »

Public transport is not the answer - or at least its not a particularly good answer. I live in outer west london (Uxbridge) which is awash with public transport - buses and tubes at better than 10 minute frequency. However, they simply are not very convenient. A couple of examples: Tuesday evening I go to running club - which is in Eastcote, about 4 miles away. Driving - about 10 minutes. Tube - 10 mins to walk this end. 5 mins to wait. 10 mins travel time, 5 mins other end walk. Total 30 minutes. Repeat coming home when its 15 - 20 mins frequency post 10pm.
2nd example - Daughter used to work in Hayes - about 6 miles. Buses - one into Uxbridge, one to Hayes. Total travel time close to 1 hour - for 6 miles for goodness sake. So she drove, about 20 minutes.

Those journeys look ideal for cycling to me (or cycling to a suitable point on the daughter's bus route.)

I really can't understand people who pretend they are going out to do energetic things, e.g. at a gym but can only get there by car - often less than a couple of miles!

Think about this logiclly - and look at the simple practical issues

To go running - yes I could cycle 4 miles there and back - but I'm running 5 miles or so when I'm there - knackered (and I mean knackered) and sweaty, have a couple of beers after with mates. Its now 10pm, pitch dark. Do I want to cycle home, in the dark after 4 miles cycling there, running 5 miles. No I dont. Even when I was 23 (a long time ago now) and cycling to and from work every day, I didn't do it.
As for the daughters travel to work - its the fact it is 2 buses that kills it. Again yes she could have cycled, but a 6 mile cycle ride, in winter, in the dark. Each way. In heavy suburban traffic. Are you serious?
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TheFairway
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« Reply #29 on: August 11, 2017, 07:51:52 AM »

As for the daughters travel to work - its the fact it is 2 buses that kills it.

Serious question. What is the difference that 2 buses make? Is it the lack of continuity/extra wait? Would better integrated transport help? What does she think would help? Would she be prepared to walk/cycle short part of the journey?

Do you think this is typical? As a former commuter using different modes of PT, i have my own thoughts and wonder if they were typical.
« Last Edit: August 11, 2017, 07:54:00 AM by TheFairway » Logged

3.995kWp SE PV. 5kW Burley Hollywell woodburner. Vent-Axia Sentinel Kinetic Plus MVHR

All posts are my own personal thoughts and opinions and do not represent those of my employer, clients or partners.

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