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Author Topic: Smart Meters yet again  (Read 1376 times)
merkland
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« on: August 11, 2017, 07:56:46 PM »

Just had notification from Scottish Power offering me a smart meter. Is there  a definite view on these as to whether they should be accepted or not? Have done a site search on smart meters but was unable to find anything to convince myself one way or the other! Are they now able to differentiate between import and export? Despite all the hype I cannot see any real benefit to the consumer, it all seems to be weighted in favour of the supplier.
Does anyone recommend having one and do they cope with PV generation O.K.?
Being well past my three score years and ten I am starting to get thoroughly fed up with all this ever changing innovation - nothing seems to be simple any-more!

merkland.
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RIT
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« Reply #1 on: August 11, 2017, 08:49:37 PM »

Just had notification from Scottish Power offering me a smart meter. Is there  a definite view on these as to whether they should be accepted or not? Have done a site search on smart meters but was unable to find anything to convince myself one way or the other! Are they now able to differentiate between import and export? Despite all the hype I cannot see any real benefit to the consumer, it all seems to be weighted in favour of the supplier.
Does anyone recommend having one and do they cope with PV generation O.K.?
Being well past my three score years and ten I am starting to get thoroughly fed up with all this ever changing innovation - nothing seems to be simple any-more!

merkland.

It all comes down to if you want the automation of meter readings the meters offer, or if you wish to make use of the new tariffs that will show up once the central data collection system is working.

At the end of the day they are still just meters. At least the one I have installed has no issues with PV generation, it is able to record the amount exported back to the grid. This is just a fun reference value as no smart meter is 'approved' for the value to be used for any charging purpose.

One thing to note is that if once installed you change provider the meter will need manual readings taken until the central data collection system is in place. This can be a pain depending on location as you have to keep pressing buttons to get the values out.

P.S. During the installation they do a gas pressure check - if it fails they cap off the gas supply until you have the issue fixed, so do not have the meters changed in the dead of winter.

« Last Edit: August 12, 2017, 01:31:10 AM by RIT » Logged

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merkland
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« Reply #2 on: August 12, 2017, 10:37:02 AM »

RIT
Thank you for your reply. I understand that the meters send readings by wireless, have you had any issues with that? In this area mobile phone signals vary between poor and non existent. We have no worries about gas as there is no public gas network here! I get very annoyed by all the fancy adverts, which we receive, for services which are just not available in many rural areas.

merkland.
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2x55w PV to batteries, 24vx440ah battery bank. 3.5Kw grid tie (14xSanyo 250w facing 160degrees at 80 degrees inclination, Aurora 3.6 inverter), 2xflat panel water heating (for over 30 years )
RIT
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« Reply #3 on: August 12, 2017, 11:36:33 AM »

RIT
Thank you for your reply. I understand that the meters send readings by wireless, have you had any issues with that? In this area mobile phone signals vary between poor and non existent. We have no worries about gas as there is no public gas network here! I get very annoyed by all the fancy adverts, which we receive, for services which are just not available in many rural areas.

merkland.

I'm in south west London, so I've not had to worry about the mobile phone signals needed for my meters to work. Your location does raise 2 issues. Firstly current access to a working network, as I understand it many smart meters make use of the good coverage provided by the old 2G networks. Secondly what happens when the old 2G networks finally get turned off. In the UK there is no firm switch off date and operators have talked about the possibility of 3G being turned off before 2G as they need to provide 99% 4G coverage before they can drop 2G. This all could mean that a smart meter needs its modem upgraded in the future to support 4G, and there is a risk that it will stop working if the 4G coverage is not as good.

I get the feeling that unless you need a smart meter, it maybe best to sit back and watch the market matures as an 'advanced' meter in 2-3 years time would be better than being stuck with a meter manufactured today.
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geezer
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« Reply #4 on: September 17, 2017, 12:18:24 PM »

Wonder if I am missing something ref these smart meters?

As I understand it they are not transferable between suppliers.  If this is true then they are just a marketing ploy to keep you with the same energy provider.  They seem absolutely pointless to me.
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supremetwo
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« Reply #5 on: September 17, 2017, 01:24:48 PM »

Wonder if I am missing something ref these smart meters?

As I understand it they are not transferable between suppliers.  If this is true then they are just a marketing ploy to keep you with the same energy provider.  They seem absolutely pointless to me.

For the old standard, that is true for remote readings as the chip in the meter is specific to the provider's software and phone number.

Nothing to prevent you changing as a new provider will use the customer's own manual readings from the same meter when you transfer the account.
« Last Edit: September 17, 2017, 01:30:32 PM by supremetwo » Logged

azps
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« Reply #6 on: September 17, 2017, 02:59:33 PM »

Wonder if I am missing something ref these smart meters?

As I understand it they are not transferable between suppliers.  If this is true then they are just a marketing ploy to keep you with the same energy provider.  They seem absolutely pointless to me.

The new ones (SMETS 2 standard) are transferable between suppliers: they can all communicate via DCC, a central signalling-yard for smart-meter data, which will route your data to your current supplier.
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supremetwo
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« Reply #7 on: September 17, 2017, 05:08:30 PM »


The new ones (SMETS 2 standard) are transferable between suppliers: they can all communicate via DCC, a central signalling-yard for smart-meter data, which will route your data to your current supplier.

Providers are able to use up stocks of the old version.

http://www.smartme.co.uk/technical.html

Unfortunately SMETS2 meters are just being tested and will only start to be installed from June 2017.

Suppliers are obliged by government rules to stop installing SMETS1 meters in early 2018 and only install these new SMETS2 meters.
SMETS2 meters will start arriving in Q2 2017 but are likely to be only installed in low volumes during 2017.


Anyone here got one SMETS2?
« Last Edit: September 17, 2017, 05:14:52 PM by supremetwo » Logged

going green
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« Reply #8 on: September 17, 2017, 05:27:09 PM »

RIT
Thank you for your reply. I understand that the meters send readings by wireless, have you had any issues with that? In this area mobile phone signals vary between poor and non existent. We have no worries about gas as there is no public gas network here! I get very annoyed by all the fancy adverts, which we receive, for services which are just not available in many rural areas.

merkland.

I'm in south west London, so I've not had to worry about the mobile phone signals needed for my meters to work. Your location does raise 2 issues. Firstly current access to a working network, as I understand it many smart meters make use of the good coverage provided by the old 2G networks. Secondly what happens when the old 2G networks finally get turned off. In the UK there is no firm switch off date and operators have talked about the possibility of 3G being turned off before 2G as they need to provide 99% 4G coverage before they can drop 2G. This all could mean that a smart meter needs its modem upgraded in the future to support 4G, and there is a risk that it will stop working if the 4G coverage is not as good.

I get the feeling that unless you need a smart meter, it maybe best to sit back and watch the market matures as an 'advanced' meter in 2-3 years time would be better than being stuck with a meter manufactured today.

the gas side of our BG smart meter has given up been reset and reset gone had meter removed back to old style meter the electric side only works 2 to 3 days a week or less the wireless system used by vodafone is always dropping
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dimengineer
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« Reply #9 on: September 17, 2017, 10:33:42 PM »

Theres a big article in the TImes today, suggesting that the whole Smart Meter thing is turning into a real fiasco - in that there will be billions spent on a technology which a) Doesn't actually work (as a metering system) very well and b) Doesn't actually lead to any significant usage savings.

So a real, genuine gold plated complete wast of money.
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paul149
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« Reply #10 on: September 18, 2017, 01:10:19 AM »

There's a thing.. Bit like the Regional Fire service control rooms, out of date before they were commissioned, but no one had the b4lls to stop the gravy train. I guess no one wants to put their name on poo pooing smart metering as it is being pushed as flavour of the month at the moment and that would be career suicide!

I guess a lot of regulars to this forum are not surprised in the slightest.

Paul m.
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geezer
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« Reply #11 on: September 18, 2017, 06:40:02 PM »

....just as I thought then, a waste of cupboard space.
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dimengineer
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« Reply #12 on: September 18, 2017, 08:56:07 PM »

Theres a big article in the TImes today, suggesting that the whole Smart Meter thing is turning into a real fiasco - in that there will be billions spent on a technology which a) Doesn't actually work (as a metering system) very well and b) Doesn't actually lead to any significant usage savings.

So a real, genuine gold plated complete wast of money.

For me, the main thing - which I could have predicted - is the 2nd item. The only way you'll make significant chages to peoples behaviour in a smart meter way is to make the price differentials eye watering, which would be politically "unnacceptable" - let us say. Also a lot of people dont actually have much choice on when they do things - if I want a cup of tea, I want it now, not in 3 hours when eleccy is cheaper. If i'm putting washing on, it needs doing today, when I can get it out of the machine to hang it up.
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TheFairway
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« Reply #13 on: September 18, 2017, 09:12:34 PM »

I wont trust smart meters until they start 'marketing' them for the real reason they are intended for - demand side response.

I dont need a smart meter to monitor my energy usage.
I dont need a smart meter to give my energy supplier up to date meter readings.

We need smart meters to help manage the grid but until they come clean to all what their plans are, i remain wary and will rely on my responsible use of energy to do a better job than a smart meter.

But i reserve the right to change my mind when I get an EV and/or battery storage... bike
« Last Edit: September 18, 2017, 09:14:12 PM by TheFairway » Logged

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All posts are my own personal thoughts and opinions and do not represent those of my employer, clients or partners.

RIT
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« Reply #14 on: September 18, 2017, 10:45:32 PM »

I wont trust smart meters until they start 'marketing' them for the real reason they are intended for - demand side response.

Well until we have a large number of meters installed and the DCC system up and running so that customers can change providers, no major provider will start the work needed to offer true demand-side pricing - or at least a more complex time based structure.

There is Green Energy UK who are doing a complex time-based structure at the moment, which depends on a smart meter.
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Why bother? - well, there is no planet B
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