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Author Topic: Why not put the batteries on the roof too?  (Read 1138 times)
M
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« on: August 18, 2017, 02:42:08 PM »

‘Microstorage’ solutions can enable 20-year warranties for lithium, JLM says

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The CEO of a company that makes ‘microstorage’ units that connect directly to individual solar PV panels, says his products come with 20-year warranties with the intention of matching PV system owners’ expectations of product quality and lifetime.

JLM Energy CEO Farid Dibachi also said the ease of deployment of PV microinverters and module-level power electronics and their relative success in taking market share from string or central inverters was an inspiration to JLM in developing Phazr, its microstorage product.

Phazr units, launched at the beginning of this year, attach a small lithium battery to a solar PV panel. Building up from units of 0.65kWh or 0.8kWh, the systems can add 2.5 hours or 5 hours energy storage duration to a residential, commercial or utility-scale PV plant.
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Just call me Mart.     Cardiff: 5.58kWp PV - (3.58kWp SE3500 + 2kWp SE2200 WNW)
phoooby
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« Reply #1 on: August 19, 2017, 02:19:38 AM »

Interesting but what about temperature exposure, roofs can get very hot. I can see the advantages in manufacturing and warranty which mainly benefit the supplier/manufacturer but installing 16+ batteries has to be less efficient than one. The main market is currently California where there are lots of bungalows. Adding in scaffold to carry out repairs will no doubt affect the economics. Finally, what about load shifting, would this be possible with this type of installation ?.
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« Reply #2 on: August 19, 2017, 07:32:07 AM »

You're also adding a fair amount of weight to the panel, so I suspect the installers won't be terribly happy either...
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Scruff
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« Reply #3 on: August 19, 2017, 09:49:07 PM »

...because you want a battery in dry storage at a stable temperature, closest to point of use not point of generation with serviceability.

facepalm

Let's put computer servers on the roof while we're at it to check our gen. stats... fight
« Last Edit: August 19, 2017, 09:52:10 PM by Scruff » Logged
RIT
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« Reply #4 on: August 19, 2017, 11:59:47 PM »

I think the key question is how many customers want/need .65kWh or .8kWh of storage, against how many maybe sold the idea that this is all that is needed.

In the USA market the need to support A/C or heat pump solutions will be a focus for many customers and Telsla thinks that 14kWh is the best way to target the market.
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pdf27
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« Reply #5 on: August 20, 2017, 08:26:15 AM »

I think the key question is how many customers want/need .65kWh or .8kWh of storage, against how many maybe sold the idea that this is all that is needed.

In the USA market the need to support A/C or heat pump solutions will be a focus for many customers and Telsla thinks that 14kWh is the best way to target the market.
I think the idea is that it's .65/.8 kWh per panel, so a 20 panel system (5kW) would get you up to 14 kWh or so.
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RIT
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« Reply #6 on: August 20, 2017, 02:44:05 PM »

I think the key question is how many customers want/need .65kWh or .8kWh of storage, against how many maybe sold the idea that this is all that is needed.

In the USA market the need to support A/C or heat pump solutions will be a focus for many customers and Telsla thinks that 14kWh is the best way to target the market.
I think the idea is that it's .65/.8 kWh per panel, so a 20 panel system (5kW) would get you up to 14 kWh or so.

I think you would have to be very short of space to use a large number of these over something like a PowerWall, A quick search indicates that the Phazr 8 costs around $900 (300w output, 650wh storage). So they are no way competitive in the markets that Tesla ships the Powerwall. For large-scale installations, the situation may be very different.

This is a good write up about the company and their ideas, but it gets a little confused as it tries to cover too much. It starts with a focus on roof mounting, but later switches to landscape deployment, where service/access costs become far less of an issue.

     https://www.greentechmedia.com/articles/read/jlm-energy-batteries-on-solar-modules-phazr-storage-product-enphase

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dan_b
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« Reply #7 on: August 20, 2017, 02:51:45 PM »

I can kind of get the concept from a "this could be a good idea - put small modular batteries in on the roof at the same time as the panels, makes installation quicker, don't need to wire in other circuits, done by same installer etc" but yes I think it quickly falls down when you've got 16x separate battery packs plus associated electronics in 16x separate units, outside, in the elements, up on your roof.  When they fail, that's going to be a lot harder/more expensive to repair/service/replace than one single battery pack located in the same place as your inverter, inside the house?

Ultimately, more battery options is a good thing - but not sure this is the right option for most people.
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« Reply #8 on: August 20, 2017, 03:13:40 PM »

Ultimately, more battery options is a good thing - but not sure this is the right option for most people.

Spot on, the more options the better, ........ but some options are more equal than others. Personally, if I want a battery before the inverter, I'd rather one nice big shiny one that I can stroke. Believe it or not, but I really wasn't going for a double entendre there, honestly guv, it just slipped out ....... damn I can't stop myself.
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Just call me Mart.     Cardiff: 5.58kWp PV - (3.58kWp SE3500 + 2kWp SE2200 WNW)
Scruff
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« Reply #9 on: August 20, 2017, 10:57:59 PM »

I think it quickly falls down when you've got 16x separate battery packs plus associated electronics in 16x separate units, outside, in the elements, up on your roof.  When they fail, that's going to be a lot harder/more expensive to repair/service/replace than one single battery pack located in the same place as your inverter, inside the house?

Agree, I attribute their success to estate developers who want an easy hassle free install with naff all consideration about the appropriateness or legacy.
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