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Author Topic: Distillation of spirits  (Read 1324 times)
knighty
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« Reply #15 on: September 05, 2017, 12:55:50 AM »

why not build yourself one from glass ?

condenser a bit like this http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/151973041998
(just first link I found on ebay)

main container can be one of those big glass jugs thingies used for fermenting wine etc. ?

google says you need over 78'C under 100'C

so put the big jug thingie on a little hotplate... or sit it on top of a flood light ?  (or something like that)

then you can insulate as much as you like... and even better you can pull the insulation off and peep in through the glass to see what's going on ?




does the alcohol actually 'boil' off ?  or does it just evaporate fast ?

if it actually boils... then you could put one of those watthour meter plugs on it... once power consumption dropped you know there's no alcohol left to boil off ?
(because once it's boiled off the left overs will just sit there at a constant temperature and do nothing)
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oliver90owner
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« Reply #16 on: September 05, 2017, 05:07:33 AM »

I suggest you go to the 'stillsmart' , or similar, forum and get some real advice.
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pdf27
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« Reply #17 on: September 05, 2017, 07:29:27 AM »

does the alcohol actually 'boil' off ?  or does it just evaporate fast ?

if it actually boils... then you could put one of those watthour meter plugs on it... once power consumption dropped you know there's no alcohol left to boil off ?
(because once it's boiled off the left overs will just sit there at a constant temperature and do nothing)
Ummm: serious health warning here: you'll potentially also find small quantities of methanol in the feedstock, which will come off first when distilling and is lethally poisonous. Unless you really know what you're doing this seems like a terrible thing to try to make yourself.
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DaveF
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« Reply #18 on: September 05, 2017, 09:17:41 AM »

Methanol is dangerous stuff and is probably the source of all the horror stories about poteen and moonshine making you go blind or causing death. I think around 10ml is enough to cause blindness and 3 times that can kill.

However, the still operator simply has to watch the temperature of the vapour boiling off before distillation. Methanol boils marginally below 65C-ethanol or 'the good stuff' doesn't boil until 78C. Simply boil the methanol off and discard the distillate untill temp hits high 70s. This way the resultant spirit is safe.

Even moonshiners with no thermometers knew to throw the first fluid to distill out away. There is a ratio of the amount that should be dumped in relation to the initial volume of fluid being distilled down, but I don't know what this is. Quite simple really.

You have to remember that methanol is present in all fermented alcohols along with ethanol. Just like the initial fermented solution that is being distilled. The only difference is that there might only be 0.1ml of methanol in a bottle of strong wine so you would die from alcohol poisoning long before you consumed enough methanol to do lasting harm. It's said that the % of methanol often contributes to the severity of the hangover. By distilling any beer or wine down, you will end up with a small quantity of methanol before the ethanol comes through. As said above, discard first fluid out and you will be fine.

Just curious though-whilst the kit is readily available, is home distilling (even for personal use) still not illegal?

Regards,

DaveF
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oliver90owner
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« Reply #19 on: September 05, 2017, 12:10:40 PM »

C'mon guys, it is relatively straightforward.   There are fores, heads, hearts and tails involved as terms.  You chuck the fores (or use it as a cleaning agent - or antifreeze in the car screen washer).  The heads can give you a headache.  The hearts is the best part of the product.  The tails will contain a little, or a lot, of carry-over of unwanted tastes.  The cut-off points for each will depend on the feedstock, the still and the experience/care of the operator.  Apart from the relatively small amount of fores (which must be excluded) the heads and tails can be reprocessed in later batches.

Question is:  Has the law been changed to permit distilling alcohol without a license?  Any contact with the customer and exercise mob eill put you on their radar forever.

There are safety issues - particularly with flammability of liquid and explosion risk of vapours.  Not something to risk without telling your home insurer, I would suggest.

I'm still not sure whether this thread is about distilling water or alcohol!
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MR GUS
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« Reply #20 on: September 05, 2017, 12:54:56 PM »

Sadly many mindsets are of the " it kills" ..not so, ..when as Oliver90 states you apply sense, modern apps, measurements that give the best indicator of what content to bin prior to safe pouring (& subsequent blending) ..Ie the nanny state loves the message it sends out.

If a tesla can drive on its own, an "app" can tell you by inputting what you put into a distillation device what you should discard straight off, (can & does).

Just like making bacon, input what we are following EU / UK / US rules for curing agent limits, weigh, apply well & enjoy after suitable mixing & maturation.

Definitely not rocket science.

Kinda reminds me of the "razorblades in apples" potential for hysteria ...know many DE users these days (I am admittedly) ..what I mean though is the world is essentially cartridge shaving led ..yet razor blades in apples stories myth over-rides common sense & modern change.

Pid controllers on the grainmaster for instance, ...recipes, & waypoints for steps to be followed.

Many good tutorials out there from either "accomplished" people or proper brewers / distillers  & micro-breweries.

Lets face it, theres apps for tying a kids shoelaces these days! (panic ye not).

Fingers crossed the law see's sense, but when there is tax involved why bother?

The rules are meant to be "the man on the omnibus compatible" ..they are not, nor does the man on the omnibus have 100,000 min start up to wipe his butt with, making it highly unlikely ever to be available to omnibus travelling man.

18 hectolitres (1800 litres) is a large vat to drown in folks, ..to be a distiller (of spirits) you need a lot of financial backing & plans in place, building, kit already purchased & in position to get a proper license, ....crazy, be it for water or anything else.

(those who used to produce bio-fuel know the rigmarole, it is nigh on one & the same). TAX
« Last Edit: September 05, 2017, 01:27:34 PM by MR GUS » Logged

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MR GUS
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« Reply #21 on: September 05, 2017, 01:07:30 PM »

NB I could really do with decent screen washer fluid, prices are atrocious.  signofcross
What does concern me is the amount of dubious kitchen distillation kit available on ebay, & that sort of stuff with unproven quality (solder / braised bits) etc will probably keep law tightly in place.

Not the sort of thing you want to leave alone in action, not the sort of thing I like the idea of a gas hob being used for to be honest.

Incredible that laws for distilling water are also thumb-screwed by government to cover all possible exits!
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Austroflamm stove & lot's of Lowe alpine fleeces, A "finger" of Solar Sad
Noli Timere Messorem
Screw FITS ..it is, & always has been about the environment (said the penny-pinching Scotsman)
MR GUS
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« Reply #22 on: September 05, 2017, 01:24:10 PM »

why not build yourself one from glass ?

condenser a bit like this http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/151973041998
(just first link I found on ebay)

main container can be one of those big glass jugs thingies used for fermenting wine etc. ?

google says you need over 78'C under 100'C

so put the big jug thingie on a little hotplate... or sit it on top of a flood light ?  (or something like that)

then you can insulate as much as you like... and even better you can pull the insulation off and peep in through the glass to see what's going on ?




does the alcohol actually 'boil' off ?  or does it just evaporate fast ?

if it actually boils... then you could put one of those watthour meter plugs on it... once power consumption dropped you know there's no alcohol left to boil off ?
(because once it's boiled off the left overs will just sit there at a constant temperature and do nothing)

Knighty, I think that kit is part of the governments problem, lab kit, home environment.

Things like a grainmaster stability & inbuilt safety, boil dry prevention etc (except in normal mechanical failure scenarios) ..again think about other vessels that are "potential" bombs / fire hazards (e.g. some hot water tanks)

I don't trust my dogs tails / inquisitive nature in a dining room or kitchen set up.
« Last Edit: September 05, 2017, 01:26:13 PM by MR GUS » Logged

Austroflamm stove & lot's of Lowe alpine fleeces, A "finger" of Solar Sad
Noli Timere Messorem
Screw FITS ..it is, & always has been about the environment (said the penny-pinching Scotsman)
knighty
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« Reply #23 on: September 05, 2017, 04:59:10 PM »

ahh kk, didn't think about government/tax man breathing down your neck :-o



as for methanol... it's bad for you because you're body can't process it, it ends up in your liver and turns to formaldehyde which then poisons you

but... if you drink some alcohol, your body's reaction to the alcohol gets rid of the methanol when it's getting rid of the alcohol


I haven't drunk any methanol... but I've breathed in plenty of fumes and have been splashed with it plenty of times (it's used to make bio diesel)

no problems here so far :-)
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pdf27
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« Reply #24 on: September 05, 2017, 07:30:29 PM »

but... if you drink some alcohol, your body's reaction to the alcohol gets rid of the methanol when it's getting rid of the alcohol
I haven't drunk any methanol... but I've breathed in plenty of fumes and have been splashed with it plenty of times (it's used to make bio diesel)
no problems here so far :-)
Almost - your liver processes the ethanol first (methanol breaking down in the liver causes the dangerous by-products), so the treatment is to keep you drunk until your kidneys have safely flushed all the methanol out. I believe cheap Londis vodka is the NHS treatment of choice.
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MR GUS
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« Reply #25 on: September 05, 2017, 09:50:22 PM »

Sounds like I could save the local hospitals a few quid making them Londis type vodka then (about 3.00 per 70 cl bottle)  signofcross

"Peteyborough" is so full of eastern europeans nowadays you've really got to watch your driving like a pair of hawks, just this evening there was a guy "tracking" his way in a zombie state across the road (oblivious) on his way to get an alcohol fix at Tesco, he stuck out like a sore thumb in a state of "medication"

he just stepped out, head down, shuffling across busy traffic...  migration has really added to the cities pre-existing problems & that includes homelessness & a fortune in translation services but lets not go there! ...I know what Brits are like on holiday  whistlie
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Austroflamm stove & lot's of Lowe alpine fleeces, A "finger" of Solar Sad
Noli Timere Messorem
Screw FITS ..it is, & always has been about the environment (said the penny-pinching Scotsman)
RIT
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« Reply #26 on: September 06, 2017, 01:53:36 AM »

https: //youtu.be/7grLpxx61eY?t=3491]https://youtu.be/7grLpxx61eY?t=3491

https: //youtu.be/7grLpxx61eY?t=3669]https://youtu.be/7grLpxx61eY?t=3669

https: //youtu.be/7grLpxx61eY?t=4629]https://youtu.be/7grLpxx61eY?t=4629


And yes I'm showing my age here........


[modified to make the links visible]
« Last Edit: September 07, 2017, 10:16:22 AM by RIT » Logged

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Justme
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« Reply #27 on: September 06, 2017, 10:18:53 PM »

I get it PDF (& thanks indeed for the thorough explanation).

Yes indeed under the personal consumption license.



Are you in the uk?

https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/distillation_licences

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MR GUS
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« Reply #28 on: September 07, 2017, 09:01:57 AM »

Yes, as per the rest of the thread i'm hoping the archaic laws get updated shortly, which was my understanding was due to happen, ...but that was 2012 & like a stalled car in a ditch without a recovery membership.

That's why i'm just considering a Grainfather for BEERS now, & so that should laws change I have the option to make it multi-modal.
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Austroflamm stove & lot's of Lowe alpine fleeces, A "finger" of Solar Sad
Noli Timere Messorem
Screw FITS ..it is, & always has been about the environment (said the penny-pinching Scotsman)
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