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Author Topic: Moral / legal question  (Read 12577 times)
Justme
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« on: March 24, 2018, 07:11:19 PM »

If you are off grid but want an EV how do the moral / legal aspects affect the fact that you will at some point be charging via a genny using red diesel?

Or a trailer with a genny in it.

This was prompted by this picture.



* elec trailer.jpg (170.37 KB, 1080x729 - viewed 541 times.)
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Fionn
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« Reply #1 on: March 24, 2018, 07:55:01 PM »

I see no issue at all, especially as there's potential for the genny to be a CHP one and / or run on veg or biodiesel.
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RIT
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« Reply #2 on: March 24, 2018, 08:00:48 PM »

If you are off grid but want an EV how do the moral / legal aspects affect the fact that you will at some point be charging via a genny using red diesel?

Or a trailer with a genny in it.

This was prompted by this picture.



Well I would view it as illegal use of red diesel as the car is a "road vehicle" unless it unlicensed and used exclusively on private property. In all likelihood, it would need a court case to make such usage illegal as I can't believe that the wording of the original law expressly made any statement about how to consider a stational engine/mobile machinery (the generator) which may have every right to be powered by red diesel, when it is used to charge a road vehicle.
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offthegridandy
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« Reply #3 on: March 24, 2018, 08:10:16 PM »

Well given that living off grid means that you demand nothing of the services at all and pay up front for your fuel and get taxed to fu@@@@@ck then go for it.  Tax on red diesel plus paying for your own network maintenance means that if your off grid and living off a genny your already paying dear for your energy compared with a grid connection.
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biff
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« Reply #4 on: March 24, 2018, 08:26:22 PM »

Oh dear,
      This can only.be put right if the  guy running the Genny makes a very sizeable donation to the New Patagonia spotted Newts Conservation  Charity.
    Large brown envelope with large unmarked bills. No cheating by sending your old lecky and gas ones...
        Biff
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« Reply #5 on: March 24, 2018, 08:40:10 PM »

its a crime , full stop   cause its not a Lister   (paul Smiley )
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« Reply #6 on: March 24, 2018, 08:44:45 PM »

Quote
I see no issue at all, especially as there's potential for the genny to be a CHP one and / or run on veg or biodiesel.

completly agree

and feck  it (them) , its pretty easy and not too pricey nowadays to to set up a house and car  fueled by  90 %  renewables ,
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Justme
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« Reply #7 on: March 24, 2018, 09:02:39 PM »

If you are off grid but want an EV how do the moral / legal aspects affect the fact that you will at some point be charging via a genny using red diesel?

Or a trailer with a genny in it.

This was prompted by this picture.



Well I would view it as illegal use of red diesel as the car is a "road vehicle" unless it unlicensed and used exclusively on private property. In all likelihood, it would need a court case to make such usage illegal as I can't believe that the wording of the original law expressly made any statement about how to consider a stational engine/mobile machinery (the generator) which may have every right to be powered by red diesel, when it is used to charge a road vehicle.

Interesting stance.

As EV's dont pay any road based tax via the elec fuel it could be a weak argument.

Are they not road based tax exempt?

The genny is not powering the vehicle on the road.

There is a similar issue re boats as they have to declare a % usage for movement compared to heat / cooking / electric.


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RIT
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« Reply #8 on: March 24, 2018, 11:11:59 PM »

Are they not road based tax exempt?

No they just pay Vehicle Excise Duty at the band A rate which is 0. Using exemption from Vehicle Excise Duty "as a rule" would mean that you could use red diesel in a 40+ year old classic car as they are 'exempt', rather than banded.

The genny is not powering the vehicle on the road.

As i said that's why our laws depend on the courts and legal system, it constantly is updated by court cases to take into account changes such as this. Just try and not be the poor person who ends up being the test case Sad
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Countrypaul
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« Reply #9 on: March 24, 2018, 11:41:16 PM »

The number plate on that trailer doesn't look like its a UK registration to me - in which case all concern about red diesel and  the road tax is probably irrelevant.  Many off griders appear to have a backup generator just in case so it really can't be considered any differenty. But what about the vehicle towing the trailer with the generator, that doesn't look like a EV to me (though I am no expert on the differnt models) - so dd it use dino juice just to get the genny to the EV???
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Nickel2
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« Reply #10 on: March 25, 2018, 09:41:37 AM »

Or the BMW driver forgot to top-up before he went out. Local garage has turned up with genny-on-a-trailer rescue.
Thinking about this, I can see a business opportunity looming on the horizon:

Buy a small low-cost pick-up.
Buy a S/H 20kVA generator and fit it to the pick-up.
Buy an assortment of charger-leads, then ready to go!

Develop an app for the phone where the absent-minded, (you know, like the ones that put petrol in a diesel car etc), so they just call 'Flying  Battery', and in twenty minutes a nice man arrives to give them a 30 minute super-charge to get them home, or to the next charge-point.
Run the diesel-genny on bio, for the vegetarian EV user.
Charge the same or less than the pump-diesel-out-of-a-petrol-tank Charlies do.

When do I start?
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« Reply #11 on: March 25, 2018, 11:28:08 AM »

I putting on me coat N2,
                        Excellent idea, We will offer loads of written and verbal support.
  You could also have a little sideline selling hot drinks and snacks, and perhaps a 3 course dinner while you charge the car.
  If your van was big enough you could add a little 12ft square screen and show varied films on renewable energy or such as The Important women in Donald trump,s life..
  When you charge them 200.00 a charge, you can explain that the charge is part of the service to help remind them not to run out of puff in future.. (It should work)
                                     Biff
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brackwell
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« Reply #12 on: March 25, 2018, 11:59:59 AM »

Another way is just to tow the EV down the road with the regen on  Grin
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Fionn
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« Reply #13 on: March 25, 2018, 12:16:18 PM »


Well I would view it as illegal use of red diesel as the car is a "road vehicle" unless it unlicensed and used exclusively on private property. In all likelihood, it would need a court case to make such usage illegal as I can't believe that the wording of the original law expressly made any statement about how to consider a stational engine/mobile machinery (the generator) which may have every right to be powered by red diesel, when it is used to charge a road vehicle.

Even from the moral / legal standpoint, I see no issue at all.
There is no tax at all (other than VAT) on electricity, while there is at least some duty on red diesel.
By charging from a generator running on red diesel instead of mains, one could argue that the diesel consumer is making an additional voluntary contribution to the governments coffers over and above what is required of them.
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myozone
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« Reply #14 on: March 25, 2018, 12:28:57 PM »

I guess if your towing the gen and charging at the same time - (is that possible?) that would be an issue with indirectly powered by red diesel, diesel electric ??....
« Last Edit: March 25, 2018, 12:30:29 PM by myozone » Logged

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