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Author Topic: Taking the plunge into battery storage  (Read 4041 times)
Westie
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« Reply #45 on: April 16, 2018, 10:59:40 AM »

Yes, homeswitch do the battery packs at 700 (ish) plus VAT and the charger unit at 560 ish plus VAT. They are supplying the ES2000 Plus batteries now, not the ES2000B that most people know. These give a better DoD and have a usable 2.2kWh each, which for 700 is pretty damn good. 10 year warranty on them too.

Scroll down for prices...

http://www.homeswitch.co.uk/sofar-ac-battery-storage

I just waiting for a quote then I'll head off and pick up 2 batteries. He keeps them in stock near Bradford.

So glad to not be dealing with masses of quite frankly scary lead acid batteries.

Yep....Hydrogen goes up!



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4kwp south facing array  SMA 4000TL grid connected.  2x30tube Navitron solar thermal panels (east/west). Arada 5kw S/C WBS. 25000Ltr underground rain water tank. KTM E-Bike  Cool
russ_fae_fyvie
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« Reply #46 on: April 17, 2018, 04:15:37 PM »

Glad I read this !

Been speaking to Michael at Homeswitch about a system for our new build just now and looks like a very good, simple to use system and not silly money.

All to be part of the new build !





Yes, homeswitch do the battery packs at 700 (ish) plus VAT and the charger unit at 560 ish plus VAT. They are supplying the ES2000 Plus batteries now, not the ES2000B that most people know. These give a better DoD and have a usable 2.2kWh each, which for 700 is pretty damn good. 10 year warranty on them too.

Scroll down for prices...

http://www.homeswitch.co.uk/sofar-ac-battery-storage

I just waiting for a quote then I'll head off and pick up 2 batteries. He keeps them in stock near Bradford.

So glad to not be dealing with masses of quite frankly scary lead acid batteries.
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New SIPs house, the new adventure starts here !
skyewright
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« Reply #47 on: April 17, 2018, 04:55:15 PM »

Been speaking to Michael at Homeswitch about a system for our new build just now and looks like a very good, simple to use system and not silly money.
How did he react to the idea of delivery to rural Scotland (I'm assuming that describes the approx location of your new build)?
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Regards
David
3.91kWp PV  (17 x Moser Baer 230 and Aurora PVI-3.6-OUTD-S-UK), slope 40, WSW, Lat 57 9' (Isle of Skye)
russ_fae_fyvie
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New Plot


« Reply #48 on: April 17, 2018, 08:04:48 PM »

Ha !!
I kept that secret!

 sh*tfan
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TedStriker
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« Reply #49 on: April 17, 2018, 09:08:01 PM »

Glad I read this !

Been speaking to Michael at Homeswitch about a system for our new build just now and looks like a very good, simple to use system and not silly money.

All to be part of the new build !


Picked up a couple of batteries yesterday. System is pretty simple to set up with good quality battery interconnects etc. Only issues I've run into so far are that it doesn't seem to work well with the iBoost immersion controller I have and the charger will only let you go down to 15% SoC, but the battery pack is specified to 10% without invalidating the 10 year warranty. Apparently there is someone that Michael knows who has designed a immersion diverter that will work with the system and I'm hoping a firmware update will arrive at some point to give me the extra 5% capacity. The pack is specified as 2.4kWh with 2.2kWh usable. That equates to a shade over 90% discharge.

So, it was all put together yesterday afternoon and of course today was dull and overcast so not much action. Currently sitting at 21% SoC, dropping 10% or so an hour. Hoping for a much better day tomorrow, in fact the next week or so is looking pretty promising.

Considering Economy 7 options, but would that mean having a smart meter fitted and so losing my 50% deemed export?

Cheers,
Ted
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11 SunEdison SE-R285CMC-38 Panels
SAJ Sununo - TL3KA Inverter
Sofar ME2000SP charge controller
2x Pylontech US2000 Plus 2.4kWh battery packs
Solar iBoost+ (currently decommissioned due to incompatibility with Sofar)
RIT
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« Reply #50 on: April 17, 2018, 09:50:06 PM »

Considering Economy 7 options, but would that mean having a smart meter fitted and so losing my 50% deemed export?

Cheers,
Ted

Smart meters are not that smart - you do not currently lose the deemed export as they has yet to be any connection made in the rules and regs. This is not to say that such a change will not take place in the future, but any such change is likly to force the installation of smart meters.

Why do you want a smart meter?
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TedStriker
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« Reply #51 on: April 17, 2018, 10:05:33 PM »

I don't want a smart meter, but I'd imagine my current one wouldn't be capable of doing economy 7 so I assume they'd fit a smart meter that is capable if I went on to E7.

Economy 7 to charge batteries on cheap electricity overnight when there's not much sun, of course.
« Last Edit: April 17, 2018, 10:07:24 PM by TedStriker » Logged

11 SunEdison SE-R285CMC-38 Panels
SAJ Sununo - TL3KA Inverter
Sofar ME2000SP charge controller
2x Pylontech US2000 Plus 2.4kWh battery packs
Solar iBoost+ (currently decommissioned due to incompatibility with Sofar)
RIT
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« Reply #52 on: April 17, 2018, 10:15:10 PM »

I don't want a smart meter, but I'd imagine my current one wouldn't be capable of doing economy 7 so I assume they'd fit a smart meter that is capable if I went on to E7.

Economy 7 to charge batteries on cheap electricity overnight when there's not much sun, of course.

This is where you need to do some more maths as the electricity maybe cheap overnight, but you must also take into account the efficiency of the charge/discharge cycle and the fact that you are using a certain amount of the battery's 'life' as you do this. An additional consideration depends on how much electricity you expect to use during the day beyond what the PV and batteries can provide will cost more.
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2.4kW PV system, output can be seen at  - https://pvoutput.org/list.jsp?userid=49083

Why bother? - well, there is no planet B
TedStriker
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« Reply #53 on: April 17, 2018, 10:28:48 PM »

Yep, all of that is true. I understand that the LiFePO4 batteries have a very high efficiency though, well over 90% I think. Now something that does look interesting if the figures do work out is Economy 10 where you get 3 separate periods of cheap power, 12.00am - 5.00am   1.00pm - 4.00pm and  8.00pm - 10.00pm. Very handy for a mid afternoon top up in winter. The Sofar charger/inverter allows you to program multiple times at which it will manually charge from the grid (minus any Solar contribution) and you can choose the rate it charges at, and the SoC you want to reach too. I reckon I could get to near zero full price import even in Winter with just 4.4kWh of storage batteries using this, hopefully significantly reducing ROI time.

I'll check the warranty status but it's 10 years and I do not think it specifies a maximum number of cycles.

https://www.zcsazzurro.com/images/uploads/contents/Warranty_of_US2000Plus-EB17WP8002_.pdf

Only thing I can see that could be a problem is the following:

The warranties in respect of the Product only apply if the Product: 5. be used on a daily cycle basis and only for energy storage system.


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11 SunEdison SE-R285CMC-38 Panels
SAJ Sununo - TL3KA Inverter
Sofar ME2000SP charge controller
2x Pylontech US2000 Plus 2.4kWh battery packs
Solar iBoost+ (currently decommissioned due to incompatibility with Sofar)
RIT
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« Reply #54 on: April 17, 2018, 10:39:38 PM »


The warranties in respect of the Product only apply if the Product: 5. be used on a daily cycle basis and only for energy storage system.


Welcome to the world of fine print. Just so you know this line is in total conflict with all the flyers for the units as they all state things like "6000 cycles with 80% DoD". This can be explained in part by the level of DoD, an 80% DoD places far less strange on a better than a 90% DoD. It would be best if you talk the whole thing over with the supplier as they know the product best.
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2.4kW PV system, output can be seen at  - https://pvoutput.org/list.jsp?userid=49083

Why bother? - well, there is no planet B
TedStriker
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« Reply #55 on: April 17, 2018, 10:54:11 PM »

Well it's a bit odd isn't it - what do they really mean by a daily cycle basis? Are you not allowed to charge/discharge when the sun goes in/out? What's the difference between scheduled charging and a day with sunny intervals?

I had not heard of Pylontech before but they appear to be well established and respected in large scale as well as small scale storage solutions.

Besides, in 10 years all this will have been replaced by a battery the size of a creme egg that will power the whole street for a week...
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11 SunEdison SE-R285CMC-38 Panels
SAJ Sununo - TL3KA Inverter
Sofar ME2000SP charge controller
2x Pylontech US2000 Plus 2.4kWh battery packs
Solar iBoost+ (currently decommissioned due to incompatibility with Sofar)
TedStriker
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« Reply #56 on: April 17, 2018, 11:04:39 PM »

The older US2000B shows 6000 cycles to 80% DoD, the US2000 Plus shows 4000 to 90% DoD - probably the same hardware, just changing the parameters to make the usable kWh higher.

A bit worrying to see that they don't know their own product codes though. There's the US2000B and the US2000 Plus.

http://www.pylontech.com.cn/pro_detail.aspx?id=114&cid=23

Also, what defines a cycle? Sun went in today and battery dropped from 60% to 45% then charged back up again when the sun came out. Is that a cycle? Is every cloud a cycle...!



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11 SunEdison SE-R285CMC-38 Panels
SAJ Sununo - TL3KA Inverter
Sofar ME2000SP charge controller
2x Pylontech US2000 Plus 2.4kWh battery packs
Solar iBoost+ (currently decommissioned due to incompatibility with Sofar)
RIT
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« Reply #57 on: April 17, 2018, 11:16:42 PM »

Well it's a bit odd isn't it - what do they really mean by a daily cycle basis? Are you not allowed to charge/discharge when the sun goes in/out? What's the difference between scheduled charging and a day with sunny intervals?

I had not heard of Pylontech before but they appear to be well established and respected in large scale as well as small scale storage solutions.

Besides, in 10 years all this will have been replaced by a battery the size of a creme egg that will power the whole street for a week...

There are lot's of complications caused by the charging/discharging cycles of even Li batteries (especially the last 20%). The problem for the industry is that as you say home PV based systems do not work when some formal statement of n charge/discharge cycles is used. So just about every solution seems to be warrantied on the number of days installed as long as charging only takes place from a PV supply. This result is a very weak warrant as across much of the UK many winter days will result in sod all cycling of the battery.

Tesla has gone as far as stating in the Powerwall 2 warranty a total MWh of aggregated throughput in complex installations that involve grid charging. Other suppilers such as Pylontech are not in a position to do this as they do not all of the equipment used (the charger/inverter records the total throughput). I've always used the same approach when trying to cost a battery solution. So for me, a single Pylontech unit has 11.5 MWh of total capacity (2.4 * .8 * 6000). I would hope for more, but do my costs around that figure.

The best thing is likely to take things slow, maybe even set the (DoD) charge level to just 80% rather than 90% for the summer months and see how things work out as you enter the winter months. This way you can start to get a feel for what changes to the system make sense, without having to make any long-term decisions now.

[ modded to clarify something]
« Last Edit: April 17, 2018, 11:37:35 PM by RIT » Logged

2.4kW PV system, output can be seen at  - https://pvoutput.org/list.jsp?userid=49083

Why bother? - well, there is no planet B
RIT
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« Reply #58 on: April 17, 2018, 11:24:41 PM »


Also, what defines a cycle? Sun went in today and battery dropped from 60% to 45% then charged back up again when the sun came out. Is that a cycle? Is every cloud a cycle...!


That's the problem, a cycle is a full discharge taking into account the DoD values. At the same time batteries don't like being charged beyond 80% (hence the limits on fast charging EVs) and they don't like being taken down to near 0% (hence the DoD value). So a battery is far happier if it is bouncing around 60% to 45% and back to 60%, which means the manufacturer does not worry so much about the inter-day fluctuations. What they do need to worry about is the hard charge that pushes the battery back to 100% as fast as possible.
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2.4kW PV system, output can be seen at  - https://pvoutput.org/list.jsp?userid=49083

Why bother? - well, there is no planet B
TedStriker
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« Reply #59 on: April 17, 2018, 11:25:26 PM »

All good points, well received! I think tomorrow will be the first day I get to late afternoon with pretty much full battery so will see how it fares with the evening load.

Something I have noticed straight away though is that my base load is rather higher than it needs to be. Previously I only had live monitoring of PV output so had no idea of house load. Picked up a basic plug in watt meter today so am in the process of checking what's contributing to this. Rather sad to see that the Sky HD box takes 21W when in use and 19W on standby! I've also seen that my 10+ year old amplifier plus subwoofer runs over 50W when not doing anything. I guess that exlains the warm spot above it on the TV unit... In comparison my brand new 55" Samsung TV draws just 0.3W in standby and barely 100W in use. 15 year old fridge freezer not helping either but that will be replaced when the new kitchen comes in soon...

I feel I'm on the start of a long but ultimately satisfying journey. No regrets so far  Smiley

Ted

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11 SunEdison SE-R285CMC-38 Panels
SAJ Sununo - TL3KA Inverter
Sofar ME2000SP charge controller
2x Pylontech US2000 Plus 2.4kWh battery packs
Solar iBoost+ (currently decommissioned due to incompatibility with Sofar)
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