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Author Topic: Jaguar iPace on Fully Charged  (Read 661 times)
dan_b
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« on: April 16, 2018, 09:09:22 AM »

Well worth a watch.  I must admit I thought it was "just" a re-do of the already launched F-Pace SUV, but it seems not. Do we finally have another major car manufacturer making a proper EV which they actually want to sell?   

youtu.be/MocHcoBm4bU
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« Reply #1 on: April 16, 2018, 09:54:17 AM »

Truly a handsome car; interesting to hear 'British designed, Austrian built'. I'm looking forward to a ride in one. (I'll never own one, but you can always dream!)

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TheFairway
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« Reply #2 on: April 16, 2018, 09:56:23 AM »

Its a shame that the simplicity of an EV is still not being reflected in the price vs similar ICE such as the E-Pace which starts iirc 30k less.
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« Reply #3 on: April 16, 2018, 11:42:35 AM »

What caught my attention was the fleeting mention of a 7kW charger, and nothing else, about recharging the battery.

Certainly not good enough if the battery is depleted.  One would expect to at least be able to charge it on E7 leccy, I would have thought. whistlie
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MeatyFool
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« Reply #4 on: April 16, 2018, 12:25:33 PM »

Its a shame that the simplicity of an EV is still not being reflected in the price vs similar ICE such as the E-Pace which starts iirc 30k less.

I doubt it ever will.  Don't forget that EVs are going to cannibalise dealership profits on service and repair.  They need to make their money somehow, and up front is the most obvious way to go.

It's the very simplicity of the EV that ensures this.  Less to go wrong.

Meatyfool..

PS  I got two free services when I bought my leaf - I'll use them (one down, one to go), but after that I really think I won't bother with a service again.  I can check tyre wear myself, and if I get a warning on low brakes in an MOT, then get that fixed as and when.  I am aware that there are some activities that get done as part of service (such as fluid replacements), but according to Transport Evolved (you tube), these are likely to be iro 75K and 150K miles.  I'll worry about it later.

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Westie
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« Reply #5 on: April 16, 2018, 04:24:50 PM »

What caught my attention was the fleeting mention of a 7kW charger, and nothing else, about recharging the battery.

Certainly not good enough if the battery is depleted.  One would expect to at least be able to charge it on E7 leccy, I would have thought. whistlie

I'm not surprised they didn't mention home charging, as battery costs reduce capacity rises and home charging becomes the 'elephant in the room'.

If you want to charge a 100kw+ battery in any sensible time you'll need a 3 phase supply at home to be able to install a 22kw EVSE (7kw / phase).



« Last Edit: April 16, 2018, 04:32:33 PM by Westie » Logged

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« Reply #6 on: April 16, 2018, 04:40:38 PM »

What caught my attention was the fleeting mention of a 7kW charger, and nothing else, about recharging the battery.

Certainly not good enough if the battery is depleted.  One would expect to at least be able to charge it on E7 leccy, I would have thought. whistlie

I thought that sounded odd too. Could it be a reference to 7kW AC, and that the car can do higher kW's of DC fast charge?
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« Reply #7 on: April 16, 2018, 04:58:41 PM »

What caught my attention was the fleeting mention of a 7kW charger, and nothing else, about recharging the battery.

Certainly not good enough if the battery is depleted.  One would expect to at least be able to charge it on E7 leccy, I would have thought. whistlie

Well the car's spec's allow for 100kW fast charging, which will be nice as and when the UK ever sees an open network of such chargers. The 7kW is just the best a UK homeowner is ever likely to see as very few UK homes have 3 phase connections. All in all I get the feeling that Jaguar does not want much focus on the fact that the car is an EV, and with the reported range being around 300 miles they may be able to do it.

With a 90kWh battery I'm more interested in seeing if they will get involved in car to grid discharging. There seems little point installing a large home battery if you have such a large mobile battery if it spends a lot of time sitting at home.
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« Reply #8 on: April 16, 2018, 05:51:14 PM »

was just wondering about the charger, wondered it it was a 7kw per phase limit so I googled it

charging from AC it's limited to 7.4kw (32amp)

if you charge from 3 phase it only charges from one of the phases (at 7.4kw - 32amp)

from a DC charger you can charge from 50kw or 100kw chargers

I guess... if you have your own charger at home (charger, not power socket) it'll charge at whatever rate you want it to charge at because it's DC?


seams a bit of a shame... guess they're thinking fast DC chargers will be the norm pretty soon?
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Westie
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« Reply #9 on: April 16, 2018, 06:24:23 PM »

was just wondering about the charger, wondered it it was a 7kw per phase limit so I googled it

charging from AC it's limited to 7.4kw (32amp)

if you charge from 3 phase it only charges from one of the phases (at 7.4kw - 32amp)

from a DC charger you can charge from 50kw or 100kw chargers

I guess... if you have your own charger at home (charger, not power socket) it'll charge at whatever rate you want it to charge at because it's DC?


seams a bit of a shame... guess they're thinking fast DC chargers will be the norm pretty soon?

You are right, jeepers what a major oversight that is.  There are loads of 3 phase 22kw  EVSE sockets around (more of those than fast chargers) but if you plug your Jag into one of those it only uses one phase!  Bonkers, they only have a single phase 7kw AC charger built into a car with a 90kwhr battery!   The last time I seen anything so remotely bonkers was when Mercedes released the B250e which only had a single phase ac 3kw chrger and a 35kwhr battery and no DC fast charging!

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« Reply #10 on: April 16, 2018, 06:34:25 PM »

I doubt it ever will.  Don't forget that EVs are going to cannibalise dealership profits on service and repair.  They need to make their money somehow, and up front is the most obvious way to go.

It's the very simplicity of the EV that ensures this.  Less to go wrong.
Already happening - Vauxhall have just announced that they're terminating the contracts of all their dealerships, looking to cut the size of the network roughly in half. That's mostly because even current IC engined cars need far less maintenance so the dealers have much less to do.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2018/04/16/vauxhall-terminate-entire-dealership-network-sales-plunge/

You are right, jeepers what a major oversight that is.  There are loads of 3 phase 22kw  EVSE sockets around (more of those than fast chargers) but if you plug your Jag into one of those it only uses one phase!  Bonkers, they only have a single phase 7kw AC charger built into a car with a 90kwhr battery!   The last time I seen anything so remotely bonkers was when Mercedes released the B250e which only had a single phase ac 3kw chrger and a 35kwhr battery and no DC fast charging!
My understanding is that the 22kW EVSE sockets only use a single phase anyway. A lot will depend on the onboard rectification scheme adopted, but increasing the power to 22kW might add a surprising amount of cost to a car - and automotive companies are very good indeed at manufacturing inexpensively. Unless there is a clear customer demand to charge faster from an AC system (which isn't at all clear to me if DC fast charging will become more widely available over the life of the car) then the added cost might well not be justified.
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Westie
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« Reply #11 on: April 16, 2018, 07:11:12 PM »

I doubt it ever will.  Don't forget that EVs are going to cannibalise dealership profits on service and repair.  They need to make their money somehow, and up front is the most obvious way to go.

It's the very simplicity of the EV that ensures this.  Less to go wrong.
Already happening - Vauxhall have just announced that they're terminating the contracts of all their dealerships, looking to cut the size of the network roughly in half. That's mostly because even current IC engined cars need far less maintenance so the dealers have much less to do.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2018/04/16/vauxhall-terminate-entire-dealership-network-sales-plunge/

You are right, jeepers what a major oversight that is.  There are loads of 3 phase 22kw  EVSE sockets around (more of those than fast chargers) but if you plug your Jag into one of those it only uses one phase!  Bonkers, they only have a single phase 7kw AC charger built into a car with a 90kwhr battery!   The last time I seen anything so remotely bonkers was when Mercedes released the B250e which only had a single phase ac 3kw chrger and a 35kwhr battery and no DC fast charging!
My understanding is that the 22kW EVSE sockets only use a single phase anyway. A lot will depend on the onboard rectification scheme adopted, but increasing the power to 22kW might add a surprising amount of cost to a car - and automotive companies are very good indeed at manufacturing inexpensively. Unless there is a clear customer demand to charge faster from an AC system (which isn't at all clear to me if DC fast charging will become more widely available over the life of the car) then the added cost might well not be justified.

No, don't think that's right, I've never come across a single phase 22kw evse, that would be almost 100A, I've only come accross 3 phase so 32A/phase.   According to Zap Map there are 17,000 fast ac chargers (type2 level2) rated at 7kw if you connect with single phase or 22kw if you connect with 3 phase.  

I agree it all come down to money but jeez... this is a 70k prestige car not a Zoe or a Leaf....

I guess they're  counting on a huge increase in the numbers of CCS chargers...  A Fair enough assumption from what I've read.....

Edit....  haha.... I spoke to soon about the Zoe, the new 40kwhr version does 22kW AC 3 phase....





« Last Edit: April 16, 2018, 08:09:00 PM by Westie » Logged

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« Reply #12 on: April 16, 2018, 11:14:43 PM »

7kw home charging is a bit tight on a 70k car. Even my poverty spec Tesla (was much cheaper than 70k) does 11kw 3 phase. The car looks good and will no doubt have a higher level of finish than a Tesla. Charging may be the Achilles heal of the Jag but it depends on how many owners want to drive beyond range. Personally, I would not want to rely on the current public CCS charging network and you seem to need plan A, B, and C to prevent being left stranded. I went to Paris over the last weekend, 650 mile round trip only using Tesla Superchargers. A reliable high speed network of chargers is essential to make EV's acceptable to the masses. Hopefully we will see reliable 150kw CCS chargers across Europe soon and with contactless or chip and pin payment so you don't need to join any membership of subscription schemes.
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knighty
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« Reply #13 on: April 17, 2018, 01:33:45 AM »

I wonder if their market research has told them most people will have another car for long journeys ?

also, it's odd they don't have an option of a more powerful charger?
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brackwell
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« Reply #14 on: April 17, 2018, 07:33:03 AM »

the more powerful chargers are always going to be DC ie CCS and CHAdeMO.  AC is a non starter because of the cost and weight and cooling of a AC/DC inverter.  Up to 7kw AC is the limit of reasonableness perhaps. Unfortunately the Zoe has no future not swimming with the tide (typical French).

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