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Author Topic: Who here has the biggest battery storage system?  (Read 6070 times)
Sprinter
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« Reply #45 on: May 02, 2018, 02:37:26 PM »

Quote
I really hope as electric cars become more popular their old batteries will work their way into home battery setups

this is already happening, i have just joined a project that installed batteries and there were several options one being Lead, another new Lithium and finally recycled Renault batteries (half the price of the new batteries and with half of the warranty).

I have come across other schemes providing home storage using Nissan batteries so at least they are being reused and also bringing the cost of home storage down.

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JohnS
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« Reply #46 on: May 02, 2018, 10:26:07 PM »


I disagree. Many PV diverters prevent the use of localised water heating for a very worthwhile period of the year - I normally (probably not this year) can go over 6 months of the year without needing my gas boiler, and that is a significant and worthwhile reduction in local emissions. I would say that when used responsibily as I believe that I do (I would say that wouldn't I), that diverters lead to less localised air pollution - its only if used unnecessarily/gratuitously that diverters are not beneficial. I personally turn my dhw diverter off probably late Nov to early Feb as its not a worthwhile saving and even without that, I export approx 50% of my generation and my diverter probably accounts for less than 2.5-3kWh/day on average of lost export, maybe 600-700kWh annually. I don't see that as a big deal especially considering that probably 300+ burn cycles of my gas boiler have been saved. Or think if it another way, I export approx 1800kWh/year because I invested in PV and things like free hot water for 6 months of the year went quite some way in justifying that investment.


I disagree.  Most large domestic PV systems are in rural areas where local emissions should be already low**.  The reduction is needed in urban areas where the size of roofs often limits the PV potential.

**It would be low if it were not for all the particulate emitting wood burning stoves and open fires.

Edited to add

In my opinion, there is more advantage / economy of scale etc in having battery storage at the grid or local substation level than at the domestic level. 
« Last Edit: May 02, 2018, 10:28:52 PM by JohnS » Logged

2.1kWp solar PV
knighty
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« Reply #47 on: May 03, 2018, 10:08:08 AM »

if net metering was allowed, spare power could be exported and you could still heat electrically

of course you won't be 'credited' the same for export as you're charged for import... but if the numbers were close enough it would work for a lot of people?

that could help shift loads around... more people exporting during the day when the grid demand is high and then importing at night when grid demand ls low
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skyewright
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« Reply #48 on: May 03, 2018, 03:35:31 PM »

if net metering was allowed, spare power could be exported and you could still heat electrically

of course you won't be 'credited' the same for export as you're charged for import
Huh
As I understand it the term 'net metering' does usually mean you effectively get the same for export as you are charged for import (quite possibly resulting from a single meter that is allowed to reverse).

Separately metered export is a different thing entirely...
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Regards
David
3.91kWp PV  (17 x Moser Baer 230 and Aurora PVI-3.6-OUTD-S-UK), slope 40, WSW, Lat 57 9' (Isle of Skye)
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« Reply #49 on: May 03, 2018, 04:36:49 PM »

JohnS,

If I was being completely honest with myself I would have to agree with your sentiment re battery storage on a 'grid' scale does appear to make sense although whether the system would be better balanced with distributed storage also appears to make some sense.

Regards

Richard
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16 BP380 on a Lorentz ETATRACK1000/SB1700, 16 Chinese 80W/SB1700, 16 BP380/SMA SB1700. CTC GSi12 + Ecosol + Flowbox 8010e/Gledhill ASL0085 EHS/3 Navitron 4720AL solar ET panels and Immersun T1060/ T1070/ T1090. 7 Tianwei 235W/ Aurora PVI 3.6kW/ Growatt SP2000 c/w 5kWhr battery and a Renault Zoe
knighty
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« Reply #50 on: May 03, 2018, 06:48:23 PM »

As I understand it the term 'net metering' does usually mean you effectively get the same for export as you are charged for import (quite possibly resulting from a single meter that is allowed to reverse).

Separately metered export is a different thing entirely...


you're right... I meant net metering with a bit of a kink in it


I don't think anyone would really mind getting less for export than you pay to import, in exchange for using the grid as a big battery?
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Philip R
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« Reply #51 on: May 03, 2018, 08:04:19 PM »

In #42, I mentioned net metering and centralised energy storage.
Net metering is a meter that runs backwards, ideally with the same tariff, import or export.
Centralised battery storage means on a supergid sized substation or banking compund on a power plant, or indeed at DNOlevel at say 132kV level . Any lower than this ans system impedance could lead to improper voltage profile on the system , hence stability issues.

Philip R
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Philip R
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« Reply #52 on: May 03, 2018, 08:07:06 PM »

Yes using the grid as a battery, having your own battery on grid with net metering is a total nonsense !!

But saying that , until the 16A single phase limit is raised, then self storage will be a good option for some consumers.

Philip R
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oliver90owner
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« Reply #53 on: May 03, 2018, 09:00:16 PM »

Why would the 16A limit be raised?  I assume it is there to protect the local grid transformer components and/or to avoid very inefficient local grid operation.  Are you suggesting the limits have been too conservative?

If all the 4kW feeds on the particular phase were feeding in power and the other two phases were practically doing nothing the local transformer could be hard pressed, presumably?  So the limit of 16A has been applied to avoid those local transformers being damaged by potential extra imbalance between phases?
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Fionn
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« Reply #54 on: May 03, 2018, 09:52:02 PM »

The 16A limit is more to do with limiting voltage rise above the limits during periods of high irradiation and low demand than anything to do with phase balancing. It could well be raised in future. Here in Ireland the DNO is now using on load tap changing transformers to increase supply capacity. They also have plans to double the voltage to the kerb and install kerb side transformers to increase network capacity for EVs and heat pumps etc. This would facilitate a doubling of the export capacity too I would imagine. We are allowed export 6kW here at single phase already.
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6.75kW PV - 2.75kW East, 1.5kW South, 2.5kW West. 3 x Flat Plate Solar Thermal with side arm FPHE on 268L cylinder
billi
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« Reply #55 on: May 04, 2018, 04:06:27 PM »

16 A  is close to  4000 watt ,  i  could theoretically export ,    so about 88 KWh  a day  whistlie ralph    with a big PV and a  battery  , give me the  92 GBP per MWh , over 35 Years   like HPC   and then  small producers can   store and feed sunlight 24 hours a day into the Grid  
But i guess  people with  a potental of 30 -50 KW PV have  3 phase ??

Billi
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1.6 kw and 2.4 kw   PV array  , Outback MX 60 and FM80 charge controller  ,24 volt 1600 AH Battery ,6 Kw Victron inverter charger, 1.1 kw high head hydro turbine as a back up generator , 5 kw woodburner, 36 solar tubes with 360 l water tank, 1.6 kw  windturbine
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« Reply #56 on: May 04, 2018, 04:17:06 PM »

16 A  is close to  4000 watt ,  i  could theoretically export ,    so about 88 KWh  a day  whistlie ralph    with a big PV and a  battery  , give me the  92 GBP per MWh , over 35 Years   like HPC   and then  small producers can   store and feed sunlight 24 hours a day into the Grid  
But i guess  people with  a potental of 30 -50 KW PV have  3 phase ??

Billi

Don't forget inflation, HPC is now (Apr 18) up to 100/MWh.
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Just call me Mart.     Cardiff: 5.58kWp PV - (3.58kWp SE3500 + 2kWp SE2200 WNW)
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« Reply #57 on: May 04, 2018, 05:40:33 PM »

 oh , thanks Mart ,  am getting a bit rusty  ....  about   arguing about Nuclear , i  will be in form again soon


 Am working about  10 km away from Flammenville  reactor in France , where my folks just moved to and they hate atomic power  since i was an eggshell  whistlie ,   so a lot going on here  , talking for example to shut it down and  place PV   farm there ....

Keep me updated , how much the prices rise , maybe i will be a tock broher later in life   norfolk

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1.6 kw and 2.4 kw   PV array  , Outback MX 60 and FM80 charge controller  ,24 volt 1600 AH Battery ,6 Kw Victron inverter charger, 1.1 kw high head hydro turbine as a back up generator , 5 kw woodburner, 36 solar tubes with 360 l water tank, 1.6 kw  windturbine
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