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Author Topic: What voltage should my Rolls Series 5000 6V batteries read?  (Read 2453 times)
sticksville
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« on: June 10, 2018, 09:02:16 PM »

Hi guys,

I have some Rolls Series 5000 6V 770Ah batteries (6 CS 17P) and I was wondering what voltage I should get on a fully charged battery if I use a meter? I've read conflicting stories so a but confused.

I think it should be 7.2V but currently get 6.14V.

I've also read that they self discharge if they are not in use so wondered at what kind of rate they discharge.

Thanks very much
« Last Edit: June 10, 2018, 09:05:22 PM by sticksville » Logged
Scruff
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« Reply #1 on: June 10, 2018, 10:35:21 PM »

6.4V > 6.5V

Self discharge: >2-3% per month depending on age and abuse.
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sticksville
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« Reply #2 on: June 11, 2018, 07:33:56 AM »

Great, thank you!
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oliver90owner
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« Reply #3 on: June 11, 2018, 11:57:05 AM »

Automotive alternators for 12V batteries charge to 14.4V typically.  That avoids any gassing by electrolysing the electrolyte.  A higher charging voltage would be required for equalising the cells - that does not get done to the typical sealed automotive battery.
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Scruff
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« Reply #4 on: June 11, 2018, 12:10:06 PM »

Gasing voltage is 14.2V @ 12V (25°C). It works as well as 14.8V but takes a lot longer. Absorption thresholds are application & seasonally dependent.
I've plenty of shyte chargers that do 14.7V, some are teal, some are blue, some are white. None of them are allowed near my service batteries. Time (duration) is a more important factor than voltage.

The battery is charged when the electrolyte is at the set level and reading specific gravity 1.275.
Consider every other sign like the charger saying it's complete as advisory.

I've no problem charging with alternators they work well if you run them long enough. I have never met a competent mains charger.
« Last Edit: June 11, 2018, 12:15:07 PM by Scruff » Logged
Bikerzz
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« Reply #5 on: June 23, 2018, 09:53:44 AM »

Automotive alternators for 12V batteries charge to 14.4V typically.  That avoids any gassing by electrolysing the electrolyte.  A higher charging voltage would be required for equalising the cells - that does not get done to the typical sealed automotive battery.

Your knowledge is out of date Im afraid. Voltage set point on most vehicles is now varied and controlled by software. We have temp reading on BMS sensors on batteries or even in them on some vehicles. We change alternator setpoint from 10.6v through to 16v dependent on, health, temperature, vehicle conditions etc....
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camillitech
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« Reply #6 on: June 23, 2018, 12:43:41 PM »

Automotive alternators for 12V batteries charge to 14.4V typically.  That avoids any gassing by electrolysing the electrolyte.  A higher charging voltage would be required for equalising the cells - that does not get done to the typical sealed automotive battery.

Your knowledge is out of date Im afraid. Voltage set point on most vehicles is now varied and controlled by software. We have temp reading on BMS sensors on batteries or even in them on some vehicles. We change alternator setpoint from 10.6v through to 16v dependent on, health, temperature, vehicle conditions etc....

About time, my experience of vehicle alternators charging car/boat/generator batteries has been less than satisfactory over the last forty odd years.

Cheers, Paul
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http://lifeattheendoftheroad.wordpress.com/

'Off grid' since 1985,  Proven 2.5kW, Proven 6kW direct heating, SMA SI6.OH, 800ah Rolls, 8kW PV ,4xTS45, Lister HR2 12kW, , Powerspout pelton, Stream Engine turgo, 60 x Navitron toobs and a 1500lt store. Outback VFX3048 and 950ah forklifts for backup,
knighty
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« Reply #7 on: June 23, 2018, 06:27:15 PM »

I've always thought alternators work really well, pulling the voltage up high enough to give the battery a full charge

most put out a fair few amps (as long as you're running enough revs)


leave your lights on, drain the battery totally dead... get a jump start.... 15 min drive home and you're charged enough that you might as well be fully charged (I guess as long as it starts the engine in the morning you don;t know how charged it is)
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Tinbum
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« Reply #8 on: June 23, 2018, 09:15:47 PM »

Generally I have found them extremely good for what they are designed for.

Most vehicles I've had have had batteries that have lasted for 8 plus years without replacement and any that I have replaced before that time have been due to lack of use or someone leaving something on.
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85no 58mm solar thermal tubes, 28.5Kw PV, 3 x Sunny Backup 5048, 3x Sunny Island 5048, 2795 Ah (135kWh) (c20) Rolls batteries 48v, Atmos wood gasification boiler, Brosley wood burner, 2000lt buffer tank and 250lt DHW
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« Reply #9 on: June 23, 2018, 11:17:25 PM »


About time, my experience of vehicle alternators charging car/boat/generator batteries has been less than satisfactory over the last forty odd years.


Usually it's the cable gauge and length. I can get 75% duty continuous from them with a copper upgrade.
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camillitech
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« Reply #10 on: June 24, 2018, 08:06:43 AM »

Over my many years of messing around with cars, boats, generators and 'off grid' living I can honestly say that I've never seen a car/truck alternator and its regulator deliver it's rated output for anything more than a few seconds (if at all). Sure they are great at what they are designed to do, which is make sure your car starts every morning. As for keeping a well cycled battery fully and properly charged they are pretty pathetic really. At least that's been my experience.

Cheers, Paul
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http://lifeattheendoftheroad.wordpress.com/

'Off grid' since 1985,  Proven 2.5kW, Proven 6kW direct heating, SMA SI6.OH, 800ah Rolls, 8kW PV ,4xTS45, Lister HR2 12kW, , Powerspout pelton, Stream Engine turgo, 60 x Navitron toobs and a 1500lt store. Outback VFX3048 and 950ah forklifts for backup,
biff
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« Reply #11 on: June 24, 2018, 09:51:20 AM »

I have a little "working" experience with Alternators,
                      I remember the introduction of the 35amp lucas 3 prong and the consequence stampede among the farmers to fit the lucas alts to their "Grey Fergies" and gold engined 35 Masseys. I also remember the fact that quite a few old grumpies tried to flash the back of the alternator to excite it or change the poles.That was an expensive mistake.However,there were alternators out on the cars long before the Lucas 3 prong, fume it was just that we did not know they were alternators because they had separate controllers for which you had to search the loom to locate and they were always mixed up with all kinds of cleverness that would drive you to distraction, especially it it were a french diesel,
One thing was very clear, Alternators were and are a massive step forward in Motor electronics .The problem is,,,,,They are specifically designed for specific vehicles and it is when you take them out of their comfort zone that you get the problems. Even the position of the alternator behind the grill is important because it should be designed to pick up moisture free cool air.It is something that we don,t really think about but when you are dealing with big amps, you are also dealing with big heat, so fans and clean cool air are all important.
Then there are alternators specially designed by the likes of Mercedes and Renault that makes you wonder if their cars are all they are cracked up to be because water cooled alternators are the stuff of idiots and fools, especially if the water for cooling the said alt, if being plumbed off the top of the engine"HOT".
 Alternators are good, Alternators are GO ! but dare you make a mistake and you will reach deep into your pocket..Dropping the load suddenly and reintroducing it suddenly on some of the new top of the range Ford MPVs will set you back 200 euros just for the rectifier. Mercedes from 2001 to 2010 are an absolute nightmare if you decide to jump start your neighbour,s car, the way you would normally jumpstart a car. Your perfect good deed would have set you back 2,500 euros back then.
  When you are dealing with alternators, you need to be aware of the heat involved and the fragile parts that will never give trouble as long as you allow them to do the job they are designed to do, if you decide to adapt them to other uses like I have done on numerous occasions, you need to take every precaution to protect the alt against shorts and bad connections.
The great thing about PMG is that they can take all kinds of abuse in the raw and the engine only comes under pressure when the battery is full. You can load it all you like and the engine will happily deliver as much as you will allow it. the alternator on the other hand is like a brake on the engine, Overload the alt suddenly and the engine  will hang to a stop.(Not nice).
  I have not one single qualification in electronics and my observations are mostly hands on. I am also extremely fortunate to have a friend you has spent his life fixing alternators of every single shade and color. He has a workshop less than 5 minutes from my front door. Out in the middle of the mountain but they come from all over Ireland to visit him. His advice is always good. He does not share my love of PMGs or wind turbines which is surprising but we get along like a house on fire. Alternators and starters are his forte.
  So Paul and Scruff, You are both right. Alternators can break your heart but they can also enrich your life. There are millions of Bosch VW Alternators which have seen over 200,000 miles untouched by hand.  That is progress.
          Biff
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camillitech
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« Reply #12 on: June 24, 2018, 12:43:36 PM »

Methinks water cooling a vehicle alternator is more to do with keeping the temperature stable. Sure, much of the time an air cooled alternator may well be cooler but an alternator cooled by the water jacket will always be the same temp even when working really hard. Constant stress by expansion and contraction of components due to temperature variance is a killer too. Having said that, personally I’d go air cooled every time, just like me Listers but methinks that that is the logic behind water ‘cooled’ alternators. And yes Biff, alternators are a gazillion times better than the old Lucas C40 dynamo which was all the ‘Prince of Darkness’ had to offer for twenty years or more.

Cheers, Paul
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http://lifeattheendoftheroad.wordpress.com/

'Off grid' since 1985,  Proven 2.5kW, Proven 6kW direct heating, SMA SI6.OH, 800ah Rolls, 8kW PV ,4xTS45, Lister HR2 12kW, , Powerspout pelton, Stream Engine turgo, 60 x Navitron toobs and a 1500lt store. Outback VFX3048 and 950ah forklifts for backup,
Scruff
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« Reply #13 on: June 24, 2018, 03:35:36 PM »



Bosch!
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camillitech
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« Reply #14 on: June 24, 2018, 04:03:16 PM »

 genuflect Hope ur no driving that baby with a regular A section bee belt Scruff  fingers crossed!
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http://lifeattheendoftheroad.wordpress.com/

'Off grid' since 1985,  Proven 2.5kW, Proven 6kW direct heating, SMA SI6.OH, 800ah Rolls, 8kW PV ,4xTS45, Lister HR2 12kW, , Powerspout pelton, Stream Engine turgo, 60 x Navitron toobs and a 1500lt store. Outback VFX3048 and 950ah forklifts for backup,
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