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Author Topic: What Battery Charger for Rolls Series 5000?  (Read 623 times)
sticksville
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« on: June 13, 2018, 05:10:50 PM »

Could anyone recommend a cheap charger to charge a Rolls Series 5000 6V 770Ah battery from the mains?

Thanks very much!!
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Scruff
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« Reply #1 on: June 13, 2018, 09:38:39 PM »

Have you only one 6V?

Ctek are the best I've found but I only recommend them I don't use them, they're not as good as MorningStar.
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sticksville
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« Reply #2 on: June 14, 2018, 07:03:57 AM »

Thanks Scruff. I have 8 of them from a grid connected wind and solar system that was here when I bought my house (28 PV panel array, Proven turbine, 8 Rolls batteries etc).

My inverter failed a while back and the whole system has been gathering dust since then as it really baffles me. I've tried to find someone to help me fix the system but no-one was interested or understood much about it so I gave up. I wish I'd found this forum years ago as I could have asked around here too.

Everything has now been disconnected and I'm in the process of selling it off.

The batteries have not been charged for some time and all have a nearly identical voltage reading of around 4v. I originally thought that meant they were dead and only worth scrap value, but the last thing I want to do is scrap them if there is still life in them and if someone else can get some use out of them.

So I'm now trying to figure out if they're any good without having to spend much money on a charger.

What I don't understand is that all the chargers I've seen say that they charge up to a certain Ah e.g. the ctek ones say "for use with batteries from 1.2Ah-110Ah". My Rolls batteries are 6V 770Ah so does that mean I have to find a beast of a charger?

Most chargers seem to be 12V so if I were to charge two batteries at 12V, would I wire them in series or parallel?

Thanks for your help
« Last Edit: June 14, 2018, 07:17:19 AM by sticksville » Logged
Tinbum
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« Reply #3 on: June 14, 2018, 07:45:19 AM »

Eltek chargers if you connect them in series- 48v
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85no 58mm solar thermal tubes, 28.5Kw PV, 3 x Sunny Backup 5048, 3x Sunny Island 5048, 2795 Ah (135kWh) (c20) Rolls batteries 48v, Atmos wood gasification boiler, Brosley wood burner, 2000lt buffer tank and 250lt DHW
sticksville
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« Reply #4 on: June 14, 2018, 07:52:52 AM »

Thanks Tinbum, but the only Eltek chargers I can see are very expensive?
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Tinbum
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« Reply #5 on: June 14, 2018, 07:55:10 AM »

Have a look on ebay- they are normally pretty cheap there.
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85no 58mm solar thermal tubes, 28.5Kw PV, 3 x Sunny Backup 5048, 3x Sunny Island 5048, 2795 Ah (135kWh) (c20) Rolls batteries 48v, Atmos wood gasification boiler, Brosley wood burner, 2000lt buffer tank and 250lt DHW
Scruff
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« Reply #6 on: June 14, 2018, 08:57:19 AM »

The batteries have not been charged for some time and all have a nearly identical voltage reading of around 4v
So I'm now trying to figure out if they're any good without having to spend much money on a charger.

Sounds like they're done. 1 dead cell per.
Not worth spending money on especially since there's no such thing as a good mains charger. For what you are doing I'd just use an unregulated solar panel  or a constant voltage, current limited power supply.


What I don't understand is that all the chargers I've seen say that they charge up to a certain Ah e.g. the ctek ones say "for use with batteries from 1.2Ah-110Ah". My Rolls batteries are 6V 770Ah so does that mean I have to find a beast of a charger?

Marketing w@nk just ignore it. The uninformed will tell you need to maintain a 10% charge rate. This is a rule of thumb that has been elevated to gospel by sales types and pseudo-scientists. When I hear that recommendation I realise the person offering the advise is not a trusted source.

If you put charge into a battery it will charge. After that you are offsetting time to charge against battery longevity and effectiveness. Less is more but takes longer. (Up to a point...you need to supply enough powah to overcome the battery's internal resistance...ie if the voltage is rising you are doing it right)
I use between 30% charge rate and 1% depending on power availability on my flooded cells. My AGMs I restrict to 20% because they're anaemic.

If you use cheap chargers they may die from heat stroke, this is because they are a shyte build quality but the manufacturer will blame the user. Most of the IP jobs derate to 75% anyway as soon as you ask them to do any work. Victron and Ctek do this and they callit a feature.  wackoteapot

MorningStar controllers do not derate, they can supply 100% duty 100% of the time.

Most chargers seem to be 12V so if I were to charge two batteries at 12V, would I wire them in series or parallel?

Would be much easier find a charger at 12v/24v/48v.

I'd just wire them series-parallel 24V top up the electrolyte (above the plates 10mm) and whack a 1kW, 28V array on them for a month and callit done.
If they don't recover they are scrap metal.
You can do 48V too if you put the solar in series parallel: 56V
« Last Edit: June 14, 2018, 09:20:49 AM by Scruff » Logged
sticksville
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« Reply #7 on: June 14, 2018, 09:24:24 AM »

Amazing advise, thank you very much Scruff!
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Scruff
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« Reply #8 on: June 14, 2018, 09:33:49 AM »

Check them periodically, and watch out for over-temp or aggressive bubbling (more than a churgle every 20 seconds) it's not a good idea charge dead cells. Usually they'll take the abuse but they can go boom. If you have dead cells this will mean overcharging the living ones and heavy gassing.

If you want to ascertain the cell health drop some solder into the cells on top of the plates (EDIT: as makeshift multi-meter probes) and use the neighbouring cell or battery post to determine cell voltages.
Do not use a metal that reacts with H2SO4. Eg Zinc plated anything... sh*tfan

Keep notes. Voltage + specific gravity per cell.

« Last Edit: June 14, 2018, 11:58:36 AM by Scruff » Logged
Nickel2
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« Reply #9 on: June 14, 2018, 09:40:25 AM »

Don't forget, if you do need to top up the cells, use distilled water only, and wear glasses/goggles, don't connect/disconnect charger with power switched on, the gas from gassing is explosive. Peering into the fill-hole to check the electrolyte level using a naked light = guaranteed blindness. Read up on battery safety!
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1.140kW mono south-facing at 49*
EpEver 4210A at 24v
2 ten year old Armasafe tank batteries plus a 130 Ah starter battery and a 92 Ah yellow gel item
EpEver STI1000-24-230 pure sine inverter
Of course it'll work. (It hasn't caught fire yet).
Scruff
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« Reply #10 on: June 14, 2018, 10:19:04 AM »

 Cool 
Good advise! I only follow it with a holding voltage above 2.37 p/c whistlie
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Nickel2
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« Reply #11 on: June 14, 2018, 10:50:05 AM »

As sticksville is not fully up to date with the operation of lead-acid batteries, any safety advice would be a good thing and help prevent accidents. I would assume from his posts that care of  l/a batteries is not his forte, so safety is the first step.

N2
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1.140kW mono south-facing at 49*
EpEver 4210A at 24v
2 ten year old Armasafe tank batteries plus a 130 Ah starter battery and a 92 Ah yellow gel item
EpEver STI1000-24-230 pure sine inverter
Of course it'll work. (It hasn't caught fire yet).
biff
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« Reply #12 on: June 14, 2018, 11:10:18 AM »

Absolutely N2,
   Safety is Paramount.  Batteries under charge give off explosive gas, so no Sparks or naked flames.
 It is also necessary to have a ready supply of good clean  water handy, nearby, like a  45 gallon barrel of rainwater. I kid you not. Accidents happen, acid can splash and a quick duck into the water can dilute the damage , purchase a set of goggly, it is money well spent but the water barrel is a must...
  The hosepipe is good but quantity is all inportant initially so a full barrel is a godsend. Even if you only have a small battery bank.
              Biff.
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An unpaid Navitron volunteer,who has been living off-grid,powered by wind and solar,each year better than the last one.
Scruff
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« Reply #13 on: June 14, 2018, 11:22:02 AM »

As acid strength goes battery acid is pretty feeble especially when it's mostly hard sulphates.
It eats clothes in a matter of hours. In most cases rinse liberally with water.

If ingested take two Rennie.  ralph



Safety = good.  bike
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Nickel2
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« Reply #14 on: June 14, 2018, 11:28:10 AM »

The reason I go on about battery safety is because I have seen the damage caused by a battery explosion.
A friend of mine ignored the 'switch power off before disconnecting croc-clips' because he had charged batteries on his front doorstep dozens of times and 'the gas just blows away in the breeze'.
I got a call from his wife to say he was in Moorfields Eye Hospital and they were battling to save his sight.
He had removed the clips from a gassing battery whilst leaning over it, when it exploded, shattering the battery case, spraying acid everywhere.
They saved both eyes, but he was bandaged in full-time care for 2 weeks.
One eye recovered completely. The other eye was hit by a piece of the battery case which caused a detached retina.
His right pupil now looks like a black key-hole rather than a black circle.
He wears glasses full-time and no longer does his favourite hobby which was motor-racing.
I wear safety glasses when doing anything with batteries, even if no-one is there to see it.
My eyes are my living.
No eyes = no job = no money.
All machines in my workshop have spare goggles hanging by them for visitors.
No goggles, no watch machine.
Wear goggles. Not for me, for you!

N2
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1.140kW mono south-facing at 49*
EpEver 4210A at 24v
2 ten year old Armasafe tank batteries plus a 130 Ah starter battery and a 92 Ah yellow gel item
EpEver STI1000-24-230 pure sine inverter
Of course it'll work. (It hasn't caught fire yet).
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