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Author Topic: Water Source Heat Pump Project  (Read 5930 times)
Mostie
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« Reply #30 on: August 19, 2018, 03:17:17 PM »

well done..... and dont forget the glycol Nowty
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2x Solis PV = 1.875 kW, Mitsubishi inverter heat pump. Yorkshire Boiler Stove.
nowty
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« Reply #31 on: August 19, 2018, 09:49:32 PM »

well done..... and dont forget the glycol Nowty

The ground loop has 20% of food grade glycol which is recommended for use in environmental sensitive places like rivers.
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10kW of PV installed and 45+ MWh generated.
Usable battery storage of 50+ kWh.
Heat storage of 25+ kWh.
6kW Ground Source Heatpump.
200,000+ litres of water harvested from underground river.
A few cold frames and raised beds.
nowty
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« Reply #32 on: August 19, 2018, 09:56:45 PM »

Great work as usual Nowty, you never cease to amaze Smiley

I just wondered, given the scale of the flow you seem to have available, whether you considered using a simple open loop ie. sucked in via a filter upstream and discharged downstream?

Read back through page 1 of this thread, I answered a similar query.
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10kW of PV installed and 45+ MWh generated.
Usable battery storage of 50+ kWh.
Heat storage of 25+ kWh.
6kW Ground Source Heatpump.
200,000+ litres of water harvested from underground river.
A few cold frames and raised beds.
Westie
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« Reply #33 on: August 20, 2018, 08:05:57 AM »

Great work as usual Nowty, you never cease to amaze Smiley

I just wondered, given the scale of the flow you seem to have available, whether you considered using a simple open loop ie. sucked in via a filter upstream and discharged downstream?

Read back through page 1 of this thread, I answered a similar query.

AH... sorry, I missed that.  I see your point, in fact the only example I've had  read of that had used open loop was drawn from ground water source which is probably a cleaner source than a river...
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4kwp south facing array  SMA 4000TL grid connected.  2x30tube Navitron solar thermal panels (east/west). Arada 5kw S/C WBS. 25000Ltr underground rain water tank. KTM E-Bike  Cool
nowty
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« Reply #34 on: September 12, 2018, 09:42:05 PM »

Not much progress as I have been away for a couple of weeks, but decided as it seems to work ok, I would invest a little more money to heat my hot water with it. I already have free hot water in Summer with my Immersun diverters but don't get very much in Spring / Autumn. Also my current 200 litre tank is not large enough some days. A larger tank heated by heatpump running off PV + batteries, should be better for us, more hot water for less eleccy.

Picked up a surplus 300 litre indirect hot water cylinder with a very large internal coil specifically for heat pumps. 28m of 22mm corrugated stainless pipe rated at 57kW. Most standard cylinders of that size seem only to be rated at half that.

So hopefully I wont need to use a buffer tank to prevent excessive compressor cycling.

Also getting an Economy 7 meter fitted for use in winter.


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10kW of PV installed and 45+ MWh generated.
Usable battery storage of 50+ kWh.
Heat storage of 25+ kWh.
6kW Ground Source Heatpump.
200,000+ litres of water harvested from underground river.
A few cold frames and raised beds.
nowty
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« Reply #35 on: October 03, 2018, 12:18:20 AM »

Progress update, spent two weeks building a couple of walls, very tiresome work, sometimes I wish I never start these jobs. sh*tfan

But now making good progress, tomorrow I decommission the old hot water cylinder and drain the heating system so I will have no hot water or heating till its done.  winter

Also having a nightmare with elecy company trying to get an Economy 7 meter fitted. First it was no problem and the meter install appointment is booked. Then wait 3 weeks and they don't turn up or even say why. Then spend two days on the phone with various customer service bods telling me they had no resources, then I was on the wrong tariff, oh there is a technical problem, we will email you by the end of the day, etc, etc. Nothing happens. banghead

Finally spoke to someone today who seemed to know what he was doing and spent quite some time getting the appointment re-booked. It kept failing on the system for different reasons but he persevered and kept me on the line until it was done. Promising but I'll believe it when I see it.


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10kW of PV installed and 45+ MWh generated.
Usable battery storage of 50+ kWh.
Heat storage of 25+ kWh.
6kW Ground Source Heatpump.
200,000+ litres of water harvested from underground river.
A few cold frames and raised beds.
Fionn
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« Reply #36 on: October 03, 2018, 08:20:30 AM »

Looks great nowty, are you using the same heat pump to drive the heating system and the new DHW tank?
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6.75kW PV - 2.75kW East, 1.5kW South, 2.5kW West. 3 x Flat Plate Solar Thermal with side arm FPHE on 268L cylinder
Pile-o-stone
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« Reply #37 on: October 03, 2018, 09:14:16 AM »

This project is fantastic. I was just wondering though about the amount of heat loss due to the cylinder and heat pump being located outside? We have a 300l heatbank located in our utility room. The cylinder has 50mm of PUR type insulation built in and I built a similar frame around it as you're doing around yours, with 50mm celotex in the frame and 100mm celotex above. We still have heavy heat loss from the tank, and although the heat in within our home, I'd rather the heat be retained in the tank and used where I need it, rather than it heating a utility room that we don;t go into that often.

To try and remedy the heat loss, I'm looking at fitting another 50mm of celotex within the frame and wrapping the tank with a aerogel blanket (I'm sure I've seen a foil backed version that would look pretty good around the tank).

Do you have any plans to further insulate the tank and cupboard?
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5.18 kWp PV system (3.68 E/W & 1.5 E).
biff
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« Reply #38 on: October 03, 2018, 09:45:51 AM »

     Brilliant project Nowty, genuflect
                            Biff
           
             
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An unpaid Navitron volunteer,who has been living off-grid,powered by wind and solar,each year better than the last one.
nowty
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« Reply #39 on: October 03, 2018, 09:55:27 AM »

Looks great nowty, are you using the same heat pump to drive the heating system and the new DHW tank?


Yep, bottom left of the last pic you will see two zone valves. One for hot water and one for heating, each can be turned on with a wifi socket from my phone, can also be timed or have a countdown timer.
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10kW of PV installed and 45+ MWh generated.
Usable battery storage of 50+ kWh.
Heat storage of 25+ kWh.
6kW Ground Source Heatpump.
200,000+ litres of water harvested from underground river.
A few cold frames and raised beds.
nowty
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« Reply #40 on: October 03, 2018, 10:08:02 AM »

Do you have any plans to further insulate the tank and cupboard?

Yes I know I am taking a bit of a risk with heat loss having this outside, but I intend to insulate, insulate and insulate it all. Main reason was to get it as close to the heatpump as possible and it frees up space in my kitchen where the existing water tank is.

I am making some of this up as I go along, first was to build two brick walls front and back to hide it all, then decided to celotex the walls, then box the tank in, then lag the pipes, then .., depends on where all the pipes end up as the pipes can only go where they can.
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10kW of PV installed and 45+ MWh generated.
Usable battery storage of 50+ kWh.
Heat storage of 25+ kWh.
6kW Ground Source Heatpump.
200,000+ litres of water harvested from underground river.
A few cold frames and raised beds.
offthegridandy
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« Reply #41 on: October 03, 2018, 10:56:06 AM »

Top job nowty.

I'd have thought, given that you would appear to have unlimited raw energy to tap into, that your heat losses are less of a concern. Once the system is hot and your house is warm your only going to be "topping up" the tank.

Keep up the good work.

Andy
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8 KVA Lister TS2 Startamatic Genny
24 Volt 1000amp battery bank
Outback VFX3024
4.6 Kw PV array permanently ground mounted
Outback Flexmax 80
2 X Flexmax 30 PV CC
0.75 Kw wind turbine H Piggot design 2.4 Mtr Dia
12 Mtr lattice Tower.
u/floor heating from oil boiler cross linked to 12 Kw WBS
nowty
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« Reply #42 on: October 10, 2018, 12:16:31 AM »

More progress,

Temporarily removed my gas combi to get at the pipework to connect the heatpump to the heating system and to transfer the pre heated water from the old tank to the new one. bike

I knew it was going to be difficult, and it was, the heating flow and return connections took me two days to connect due to some very difficult bends in awkward places under my floor. facepalm




Combi gas boiler now back in and filled the new tank up with water, no leaks. Water is once again coming out of my taps. ballspin



I still have a few modifications to do on the heating system so I cannot yet fill the heat pump heating circuit. But I connected my immersuns up to the tank immersions and as it was really sunny today dumped 10kWh into the tank so we had plenty of free running hot water.


Nearly there now. fingers crossed!

Just noticed that my prospective Leccy supplier Utilita has increased their E7 night rate from 5.2p to 9.2p. sh*tfan
Well that's busted my business plan. Cry

Now going to have to be Ebico at 7.7p with zero standing charge.
« Last Edit: October 10, 2018, 12:23:55 AM by nowty » Logged

10kW of PV installed and 45+ MWh generated.
Usable battery storage of 50+ kWh.
Heat storage of 25+ kWh.
6kW Ground Source Heatpump.
200,000+ litres of water harvested from underground river.
A few cold frames and raised beds.
linesrg
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« Reply #43 on: October 10, 2018, 07:37:59 AM »

Mike,

I really do envy your situation and skills to be able to install this yourself. I could possibly manage but...............

My main point in posting relates to the inevitable narrowing of E7 prices as time goes on. It doesn't take a genius to work out that as more use is made of cheap E7 rate electricity the cost will go up thus reducing the level of savings we all carefully calculate in advance as part of the argument for making the changes we do.

Regards

Richard
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16 BP380 on a Lorentz ETATRACK1000/SB1700, 16 Chinese 80W/SB1700, 16 BP380/SMA SB1700. CTC GSi12 + Ecosol + Flowbox 8010e/Gledhill ASL0085 EHS/3 Navitron 4720AL solar ET panels and Immersun T1060/ T1070/ T1090. 7 Tianwei 235W/ Aurora PVI 3.6kW/ Growatt SP2000 c/w 5kWhr battery and a Renault Zoe
Nickel2
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« Reply #44 on: October 10, 2018, 08:04:48 AM »

Nice job!!   genuflect
I like the use of coloured cable ties for identifying the flows, I'm going to replace all the bits of scribbled-on tape now. Smiley
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1.140kW mono south-facing at 49*
EpEver 4210A at 24v
24V 400 Ah battery. (4x200Ah FLA)
EpEver STI1000-24-230 pure sine inverter
Of course it'll work. (It hasn't caught fire yet).
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