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Author Topic: Battery degradation  (Read 1445 times)
Warble
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« on: August 30, 2018, 11:36:32 AM »

Are battery systems a good investment?
https://www.solarpowerportal.co.uk/news/battery_degradation_costs_homeowners_400_a_year_argues_new_study
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Westie
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« Reply #1 on: August 30, 2018, 11:52:38 AM »

My initial thought is that system they assessed is behind the curve. The battery is too small, its DC coupled so reduces Fits thro losses.

It would have been more interesting if they used an AC coupled battery system of around 10kw and factored in E7 time shifting over the winter months.

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linesrg
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« Reply #2 on: August 30, 2018, 03:16:01 PM »

Good Afternoon All,

Yes there are some aspects of the linked item which could be altered to give a more positive spin but, as I have stated elsewhere if I were spending the Government's money I would want the maximum bang for my buck and would have centralised or local area battery storage systems.

I can see you don't want one single bank but them neither do you want thousands of them.

Hand on heart I don't see there's any real economic sense in home battery storage except to the manufacturers and installers in a great many cases. I think money would be better spent on sorting out a smart grid and using EV battery systems (and persuading Renault to start installing V2G compatible charging systems?Huh)

Regards

Richard
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kristen
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« Reply #3 on: August 30, 2018, 03:52:45 PM »

Hand on heart I don't see there's any real economic sense in home battery storage except to the manufacturers and installers in a great many cases.

I work from home. Power cut is a PITA - even the 5-second ones that cause everything to reboot. Yes I could have UPS but the small ones are not very reliable and their batteries don't last long - both to provide power, and total-lifetime ... and if some idiot digs up / lassos a power cable then I'm going to be offline for 4 hours whilst it is fixed. Battery works for me (I don't feel the need for a generator; if we have a storm such that in my isolation spot I will be off for a week I will drive somewhere that didn't have storm-destruction and hire one)

But other than that I agree that local-ish storage is a good balance.
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kristen
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« Reply #4 on: August 30, 2018, 04:00:12 PM »

My initial thought is that system they assessed is behind the curve. The battery is too small, its DC coupled so reduces Fits thro losses.

Anecdotal evidence that Tesla car batteries lose about 6% capacity over 200,000 miles - this from Taxi companies that have very high mileage, and also a fair amount of abuse - rapid-charging, and to 100% rather than somewhat less than that, and 100%-0%-ish daily discharge

Based on that ny expectation is that "Small batteries" are unlikely to have a decent battery management system, fluid+radiators for cooling, etc. which seems to be a large part of how Tesla is accomplishing minimal degradation.  Nissan Leaf batteries have not been as good, for example.

So I reckon batteries could perform a lot better than the research has suggested. Will be interesting to see how much real-world degradation Tesla PowerWall actually incurs
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billi
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« Reply #5 on: August 31, 2018, 04:19:47 AM »

is
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200,000 miles
a lot for a 1 kWh  battery ?
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kristen
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« Reply #6 on: August 31, 2018, 06:45:53 AM »

is
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200,000 miles
a lot for a 1 kWh  battery ?

Hehehe ... recharging is allowed Smiley. The Taxis did 200,000 miles over a relatively short period - maybe as little as 2 years that I recall.

Tesla Model-S do about 3 miles per kWh (Model-3 around 4 miles per kWh) ... so that would be the devil of batteries at 66,666.66 kWh Smiley Not sure what size the Taxi's were, either 75kWh, or 90kWh (100 kWh battery is more recent), but at 80% recharge per day the 75kWh would be 700-ish recharges which is about 2 years so I guess that one

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