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Author Topic: Industrial battery opportunity charging  (Read 1299 times)
billi
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« Reply #15 on: November 10, 2018, 04:30:17 PM »

dead simple , i let one of the chargers ,  charging slightly higher in the last  charge sequences  ... to finnish the charge 

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1.6 kw and 2.4 kw   PV array  , Outback MX 60 and FM80 charge controller  ,24 volt 1600 AH Battery ,6 Kw Victron inverter charger, 1.1 kw high head hydro turbine as a back up generator , 5 kw woodburner, 36 solar tubes with 360 l water tank, 1.6 kw  windturbine
kristen
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« Reply #16 on: November 10, 2018, 04:39:14 PM »

We are on economy 10 at the moment which gives quite a good rate in the cheap periods of about 10.5p per kwh

E7 and e.g. Tide would get you down to around 5p off-peak ... but I don't know if the day rate would penalise you (compared to your current) and Tide has an even higher "peak evening rate"

I expect you've considered all that, so only mentioning it on the off chance ...
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offthegridandy
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« Reply #17 on: November 10, 2018, 06:19:56 PM »

A bit more to  ponder re FLA battery cells and general useage.

To reduce the watering of cells periodically you can purchase special caps which I believe condense out the water lost to atmosphere and return it to the cells.

Periodic "high charging or equalization"   can usually be programmed into good quality inverter chargers so you don't have to remember your self.

FLA batteries are in fact very tough and can take a lot of abuse and miss management. My first set (24 V 850Ahr C5) lasted 12 yrs with  8 to 9yrs of good service and last 3 decreasing charge retention.  They were left very dry on at least one occasion. We learn!

FLA batteries are best charge at a 10 to 15% rate of their capacity therefore, if you have a 2000Ahr battery other parts of the system need to be able to work with that level of current demand (200amps @ 24v say) to effect proper charging.

For a good deal I'd get a quote from Manbatt, Manchester based supplier http://www.manbat.co.uk/ .I hope this OK Mods, I don't believe Navitron sell this type of product now?

They supplied me with my last new set, 12 off 2V 1000Ahr C5, supplied all interconnects and take off cables, prompt palletised delivery, helpfull staff. 1650 plus VAT about 3 yrs ago.
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8 KVA Lister TS2 Startamatic Genny
24 Volt 1000amp battery bank
Outback VFX3024
4.6 Kw PV array permanently ground mounted
Outback Flexmax 80
2 X Flexmax 30 PV CC
2.5 Kw wind turbine H Piggot design 4.5 Mtr Dia
12 Mtr free standing Tower.
u/floor heating from oil boiler cross linked to 12 Kw
billi
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« Reply #18 on: November 11, 2018, 02:39:25 PM »

I bought mine  second hand  was used in a forklift  it is built in 2003  and i got it  in 2008  (so intotal she is 15 years old )  , so had 5 years of heavy work behind her

i would say that even when i got her the rated  40 kWh capacity (C5) was not existing anymore , but i never drained her  completly to find out
Our dayly consumption is about 9 kWh  and we shifted most of the heavy  power consumers  to dayhours
 so most of the year  the  dayly discharge  over night was not more then 10-30 %   of the whole capacity   and maybe 20 times a year i  discharged her   by 50 %  ( i think 800 ah  or 20 kWh was the deepest discharge )
For me it was not much benefit  to  discharge her too deep , cause  the PV  had troubles to  reach a full charge  for days after.....
that was the reason i built my hydro storage lake battery
Anyway i paid 1300 Euro for her
So trying to match  as much  consumption  as possible  when the sun is out  is a bonus  as well that the draw of the battery  when loads are high , say  electric oven  runs and other appliences  the sun adds power so does not stress the battery so much
I would not like the idea of charging an electric car with 7 kW draw  on a too small industrial lead acid battery over night  , so if possible  reduce the charging Amps
The capacity of the battery is bigger  if charged and discharged slower
I once came home after a weeks holliday and my battery was 100 % charged  when i left , but  AH counter told me 200 AH (5 kWh) surplus in the batt  garden
A kWh of  PzS  Traction battery (C5)  costs about 55 GBP   so i would not size the batt too small  cause the charging and inverter gear is  costly
It kindoff makes me smile  when  super small costly  batts are installed  wjth highly expensive gear ....







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1.6 kw and 2.4 kw   PV array  , Outback MX 60 and FM80 charge controller  ,24 volt 1600 AH Battery ,6 Kw Victron inverter charger, 1.1 kw high head hydro turbine as a back up generator , 5 kw woodburner, 36 solar tubes with 360 l water tank, 1.6 kw  windturbine
eabadger
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« Reply #19 on: November 11, 2018, 03:14:10 PM »

ours s/h has been in constant use by us for 8 years now, 900a c5, was about 4 years old when we bought it for 100 with a wind turbine Smiley
yes we need to check water but capacity seems fine, worse bit is connectors die, i think it needs these removing and cleaning maybe once a year or is that just us? one terminal is poorly and gets a couple of * warmer than rest when sun is putting out full charge at about 140a.
lowest we ever run normally is to 60% but the other week due to me programing the ashp wrongly it was on all night and ran batts down to 17%!! at which the inverter switched off and the victron battery monitor sent me an email, which i didnt get as router went off!!
keep looking at new sets, but lots more than we paid, but must get soon, we do have another standby set, but like others not yet figured out what to do with them, they just sit trickle charging off some spare pv.

steve
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1600w PV main array at 24v, excide 2v 1000a forklift cells now x 2, 320w PV secondary array at 12v. Enfield 1944 ex RAF 5.6kw diesel genset (now in pieces, big ends gone), Petter AC1 28v diesel charging set at 2.8kw.
1kw wind turbine.
26kw wood stove back boiler to underfloor heating and dhw
daveluck_uk
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« Reply #20 on: November 11, 2018, 03:17:58 PM »


For me it was not much benefit  to  discharge her too deep , cause  the PV  had troubles to  reach a full charge  for days after.....

Is there an easy rule of thumb that gives Panel size / battery bank ratio?

I know there is a lot of variables...

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billi
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« Reply #21 on: November 11, 2018, 03:41:50 PM »

.... as Any meantioned 

That what i have stored in my brain too    and  thats  exactly what i have 4 kW PV and a 40 kWh battery

But i would have no issue to connect much more PV  ; one can limit the Ampere  by choosing the right  chargecontroller , and as well as far as i know in the bulk charging phase its not an issue , mor important is the absorbtion charge after bulk charge  , and this is kindoff the inefficient  time  of charging FLA s ,
Surely high charge may cause more water usage  , if new i would get  RECOMBINATION PLUGS  for saving water and time

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1.6 kw and 2.4 kw   PV array  , Outback MX 60 and FM80 charge controller  ,24 volt 1600 AH Battery ,6 Kw Victron inverter charger, 1.1 kw high head hydro turbine as a back up generator , 5 kw woodburner, 36 solar tubes with 360 l water tank, 1.6 kw  windturbine
Nickel2
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« Reply #22 on: November 11, 2018, 03:53:16 PM »

Before I got my current batteries, I was looking at a set of these on flea-buy:

http://www.enersys-hawker.com/pdf/xfc/th/xfc_gb.pdf

They are traction/sweeper batteries, but are specced by the manufacturer for opportunity charging, See page 12 of the above manual for cycle-life and charging details. They probably make similar but smaller/larger as required.
I know they are not FLA, and a dozen people will say they are not fit for purpose, but I was considering them on spec. as fit for my purpose. Obviously forkie-batts are a better bet S/H; you pays your money, you takes your choice!
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1.140kW mono south-facing at 49*
EpEver 4210A at 24v
24V 400 Ah battery. (4x200Ah FLA)
EpEver STI1000-24-230 pure sine inverter
Of course it'll work. (It hasn't caught fire yet).
andrewellis
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« Reply #23 on: November 11, 2018, 09:56:59 PM »

Thanks to everyone for the as ever extremely interesting replies.  It has given me a lot to think about.
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6.48kw Solar PV JA (300W)Panels, SolarEdge inverter
Borehole -> Nibe F1255 12kw GSHP -> Radiators
Nissan Leaf
fourfootfarm
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« Reply #24 on: November 20, 2018, 02:47:51 PM »

I've not had any real issues with connectors yet but I undo them all give them a wire brush and a light smear of conductive grease once a year all the same.

Running a similiarly 'vintage' battery pack from a forklift and she's still chugging along.
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Outback FM60. EPsolar 30a MPPT and a bunch of Tristar 45's. Hodge Podge of solar ~ 4500w. Various generators and 1000ah 24v forklift battery.

Turkish Turnip
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