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Author Topic: ‘Huge growth’ in residential storage for 2019.  (Read 852 times)
JohnS
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« Reply #15 on: October 11, 2018, 12:13:06 PM »


Will the continent (i.e. where they routinely fit 3-Phase residential supply) be better off in this regard? (although i think lower AMPs-per-phase, so maybe same thing overall?)


Probably not. 

UK is generally three phase to the street and then divided with a third of houses on each phase. 

If it is three phase to the house and then, say, every house has the cooker on the same phase, then the continental model could be worse.

John
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JohnS
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« Reply #16 on: October 11, 2018, 12:35:24 PM »


Many housing estates suffer voltage drop on Xmas day cooking and thats only 3kw not 7 kw EVs and x kw batts.

Ken

Not strictly true.  An oven generally is rated at 2-3kW.  (Extra large ovens maybe more).

Induction hobs are generally rated 1.5-3+kW for each of 4 or 5 'burners' depending on 'burner' size.  It is having lots of 'burners' in use that causes the high power use and voltage drop.

Note.  Once up to temperature, ovens and hobs will cycle on and off or modulate.

I can foresee, in time, electricity suppliers and DNOs charging a higher standing charge for higher rated incoming fuses.  Perhaps as smart meters are rolled out, the maximum half hour consumption can/will be measured each month and domestic bills will have a demand factor component, similar to large commercial users.  Similar to water supply where having a bigger diameter pipe increases the water bill.

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Stig
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« Reply #17 on: October 11, 2018, 02:23:06 PM »


I can foresee, in time, electricity suppliers and DNOs charging a higher standing charge for higher rated incoming fuses. 

I believe they already do this in France.  Home storage might help consumers avoid this but I expect ERDF would then just charge a higher tariff if a consumer had batteries...

Cynical, moi?
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RIT
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« Reply #18 on: October 11, 2018, 06:26:06 PM »

I can foresee, in time, electricity suppliers and DNOs charging a higher standing charge for higher rated incoming fuses. 

Smart meters and Time of Day tariffs negate any need for charging for potential use based on arbitrary things like the size of the home or the main fuse. Instead, in the future, if you want to draw 100A at peak time you are going to pay a lot per unit for the privilege. The only issue is that at no point has the government been honest about how smart meters will change pricing once they are correctly rolled out to the majority of homes and businesses.

One of the complications the UK now has is that the standing charge does not (and never has) cover the true fixed cost of supply. Instead, it's just a random number created by the energy provider on a spreadsheet when they try and come up with a new price plan or changes to a current plan.
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JohnS
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« Reply #19 on: October 11, 2018, 07:01:59 PM »


One of the complications the UK now has is that the standing charge does not (and never has) cover the true fixed cost of supply. Instead, it's just a random number created by the energy provider on a spreadsheet when they try and come up with a new price plan or changes to a current plan.


Very true.  How can it be the true cost when a supplier can have different standing charges for different tariffs.

Any idea of what a true cost might be?

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RIT
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« Reply #20 on: October 11, 2018, 07:55:55 PM »


Very true.  How can it be the true cost when a supplier can have different standing charges for different tariffs.

Any idea of what a true cost might be?


How long is a piece of string and where in the UK is it located  Smiley

The best starting point would be these figures

    https ://www.ofgem.gov.uk/data-portal/breakdown-electricity-bill

With those levels of costs to move around on a spreadsheet a true fixed daily fee for just providing the opportunity for a household to access electricity as and when needed could be many times the amount that is generally charged.

Time of day charging will at least distribute the costs to those people who want access to peak power as they will pay more towards the cost of the generation capacity and network needed to support peak demand. BUT even peak rate pricing will be limited by political issues (to high a rate) and the fact that if it is too high anyone with the funds will purchase a battery to time-shift off-peak energy.
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