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Author Topic: New energy store  (Read 500 times)
andrewellis
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« on: November 07, 2018, 07:31:28 AM »

https://apple.news/AAIVPk_KlRdeQJ0Xq1dsNHA
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Fionn
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« Reply #1 on: November 07, 2018, 09:33:12 AM »

https://www.fastcompany.com/90261233/can-these-35-ton-bricks-solve-renewable-energys-biggest-problem
Link without the apple tracking.
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JohnS
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« Reply #2 on: November 07, 2018, 10:12:27 AM »

We have seen examples of these gravity stores before, eg inclined railways.

In this example, they intend to source their weights from waste concrete.

"It’s cheaper than building giant lithium-ion batteries, like the huge batteries that Tesla has installed in Australia and elsewhere. In part, that’s because the bricks can be made from cement that would normally be wasted. “These materials we’re using are actually materials that you’d have to landfill,” says Piconi. In California, for example, a construction site with concrete debris has to pay as much as $55 a cubic yard to get rid of it.

I thought that a lot of concrete debris was crushed and reused as MOT 1 material, so I am not sure how practical his source of weights is going to be.
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stucou
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« Reply #3 on: November 07, 2018, 10:18:41 AM »

same principle ?

https://www.gravitricity.com/
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smegal
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« Reply #4 on: November 07, 2018, 10:22:46 AM »


Pretty much.

Hopefully Charlieb will be along to talk about this soon.
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linesrg
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« Reply #5 on: November 07, 2018, 10:23:47 AM »

Good Morning All,

It would be nice to see one of the these systems come to market, one has to assume that the fact one hasn't would suggest the economics aren't quite there yet?

Regards

Richard
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Fionn
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« Reply #6 on: November 07, 2018, 10:35:12 AM »

It looks like a decent idea. The technology aspect can't be very challenging, there are already automated cranes in use for container shipyards and the horizontal area involved is very small here by comparison. In addition the pick and place order would be identical every time, unlike a shipyard where they're picking and placing containers at random.
The motor drives for the cranes are also pretty generic so overall I don't see any huge challenges to it's implementation.
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andrewellis
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« Reply #7 on: November 07, 2018, 10:35:38 AM »

I guess they won't work at home.. are these calculations correct for a 3kwh system?

Assuming no loss

3000w => 3000joules per second. => 10,800,000 joules per hour
so for a 10 meter tower that is 10800000/10/10 = 108 ton block required.

108 tonnes is about £3000 of concrete before all the wires/generators/frame.
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billi
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« Reply #8 on: November 07, 2018, 10:35:46 AM »

i remember this idea to cut a cylinder 1 km x 0.5 km of granite out of the ground and lift it up   with waterpressure ...  whistlie wackoold ?



http://www.authorstream.com/Presentation/heindl-958931-hydraulic-energy-store-system/



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JohnS
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« Reply #9 on: November 07, 2018, 12:08:21 PM »

I have now watched the video.  They are claiming a 90% efficiency ratio.  Pretty impressive if actually achieved.

The video has one flaw. All 6 crane arms are operating in sync.  Thus the crane will cycle between full input as it lifts blocks to zero input as the cranes return to lift another block.  Or full output as it lowers blocks and then zero output as the cranes return to lower another block.

I guess this can be solved by each of the tree pairs of opposing arms operating in sync so as to balance the crane. Bit like a 3 cylinder engine.

Not sure how strong the foundations will have to be to support the weight of all the concrete blocks.
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Fionn
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« Reply #10 on: November 07, 2018, 12:20:41 PM »

It wouldn't be as flexible in location terms, but if something similar could be done on the edge of an existing cliff or quarry there would be a few advantages.
The ballast could be just cages filled with rock since you wouldn't need to stack them, this would keep the capital cost down.
Also it would be trivial to expand and add more units along the cliff edge as required.
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kristen
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« Reply #11 on: November 09, 2018, 03:26:50 PM »

Is there a domestic-scale application of this?

Something dense that could be lifted somehow. If it floats (seems unlikely if it is Dense ...) then a trickle pump for the water when excess PV available, and some means of letting the water out, and turning a generator as the weight went back down. Control the outflow of water depending how much power you need.  Or some sort of hydraulic lift.

I figure this will only work if vertical travel height is high but I suppose several pulleys of different sizes could get the final generator turning quickly for small vertical movements of the weight.

Could this be a cheap DIY build?  i.e. DIY provides all the manual labour to shift the weight of 2nd use concrete etc.
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« Reply #12 on: November 09, 2018, 04:35:45 PM »

...  Hmm .... A 0.5 m3  big Lead acid battery  with a total capacity of 60 kWh can be  discharged 80% (warranted) 1800 times  that makes 1800 x 50 kWh = 90.000 kWh

It costs new 3000 GBP minus 500 GBP recycling value  = 2500/90000 = about 3 pence per kWh   (without charging7 discharging losses )

And the battery is still after warranty  usable !

Hard to beat 

Billi

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andrewellis
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« Reply #13 on: November 09, 2018, 04:56:47 PM »

Where do you get a battery like that?  £3000 doesn't get anywhere near as much where I have looked. 
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« Reply #14 on: November 09, 2018, 05:19:40 PM »

i got the price list from a Battery manufacturing  company in Poland  called "Bater"

PS i should have calculated with 1500 cycles  @ 80% DoD not 1800

A 10PzS1050   C5  Traction battery  is costing 3400 Euro ex Vat


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