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Author Topic: New export to Grid payments after FITs close  (Read 3166 times)
A.L.
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« on: November 23, 2018, 06:08:30 PM »

hello, video clip from parliament on topic subject

https://dms.licdn.com/playback/C5605AQHXXFsmV6Qy8A/88db89267b37472c9208ddddc552a9f8/feedshare-mp4_3300-captions-thumbnails/1507940147251-drlcss?e=1543082400&v=beta&t=trxKjQrG3GnXETU2vASvN96jNSWZBlMUTKmmzU63G0I

unfortunately no details and distortion on audio at the interesting bit/end.
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todthedog
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« Reply #1 on: November 24, 2018, 06:07:57 AM »

Don't hold your breath  Huh
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paul149
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« Reply #2 on: November 24, 2018, 11:19:44 AM »

So what is the concensus of people 'round here on what will/could happen at the end of the original 20 year contracts?

Paul m.
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brackwell
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« Reply #3 on: November 24, 2018, 11:24:27 AM »

Its seems illogical to keep the export payment. It was a bit questionable with everybody fitting PV diverters but is now more so if people are going to fit batts and have EVs.   With that combination there will be nothing to export anyway so the idea of 50% deemed export is nonsense.   Furthermore the removal of the export payment helps the push to batts and EVs.  I guess it will not stop someone opting for an export meter fitted.
Ken

At the end of 20/25yrs contract there will be zilch but by then the cost of EVs and batts.
« Last Edit: November 24, 2018, 11:27:44 AM by brackwell » Logged
paul149
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« Reply #4 on: November 24, 2018, 11:32:23 AM »

"opting for an export meter fitted."
Please tell me as I am not aware of the arrangements concerning this but could it be an option ( when FIT as we know it ends) to have a 'export' meter and set up a contract with a supplier? Will any costs and rates payable only make it viable after a certain level of export is achieved?

Paul m.
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3.5 kWp (14 x Sanyo H250E01 + SB3000TL) 225' (SW) at 35' Pitch Lat 51.30' (Bristol) Installed cost £2.63/Wp (Nov 2011) now with solarimmersion and 250L unvented dhw (Almost Zero gas input for DHW from Apr to mid Sep)
brackwell
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« Reply #5 on: November 24, 2018, 11:56:55 AM »

All i know is it has been done and presume you still can. You have to pay for the export meter.  However i am thinking that the latest MK2 smart meters can do this ??   It may just depend on the attitude of the local DNO.  Viable ? -i boubt it except for farmers with shed roofs etc.
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nowty
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« Reply #6 on: November 24, 2018, 12:14:53 PM »

OVO energy are currently using their smart meters as part of their EV to grid trial to measure export to the grid and to reimburse generators with PV. Would would get normal import charge (circa 15p) + 2p for ALL your export, PV and (EV to grid). That's several times more than the official FIT export rate. The small print is that you can only have a standard 4kW PV system and that you charge your EV at home. i.e. you buy a lot of 15p energy in the first place.

Individuals getting FITs need to opt out of deemed export payments and the interesting thing is that you can still join even if you don't get FITs, ie. seems to suggest that a DIY system would be OK.

Therefore this may be the future where via smart meters anyone can sell their export to your leccy supplier.


https://www.ovoenergy.com/electric-cars/vehicle-to-grid-charger/microgeneration
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11kW+ of PV installed and 56+ MWh generated.
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paul149
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« Reply #7 on: November 24, 2018, 12:17:51 PM »

I know no one has a crystal ball to see into the future and we are talking in 12+ years time, and a week is a long time in politics so we'll just have to wait and see!
But by then I would have had 'my money's worth' out of my installation so anything ( if anything) is gonna be a bonus.
Paul m.
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3.5 kWp (14 x Sanyo H250E01 + SB3000TL) 225' (SW) at 35' Pitch Lat 51.30' (Bristol) Installed cost £2.63/Wp (Nov 2011) now with solarimmersion and 250L unvented dhw (Almost Zero gas input for DHW from Apr to mid Sep)
nowty
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« Reply #8 on: November 24, 2018, 12:40:28 PM »

I know no one has a crystal ball to see into the future and we are talking in 12+ years time, and a week is a long time in politics so we'll just have to wait and see!
But by then I would have had 'my money's worth' out of my installation so anything ( if anything) is gonna be a bonus.

But the main issue here is for the poor sods who will fork out cash for PV systems after March next year and get nothing.
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11kW+ of PV installed and 56+ MWh generated.
Lithium battery storage of 50+ kWh.
Hot water storage of 15+ kWh.
Heat storage of 15+ kWh.
6kW Ground source heatpump.
EV BMW i3 (another 30+ kWh's of storage).
260,000+ litres of water harvested from underground river.
Home grown Fruit and Veg.
A.L.
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« Reply #9 on: November 24, 2018, 01:22:50 PM »

hello again,

I know no one has a crystal ball to see into the future and we are talking in 12+ years time, and a week is a long time in politics so we'll just have to wait and see!
But by then I would have had 'my money's worth' out of my installation so anything ( if anything) is gonna be a bonus.

But the main issue here is for the poor sods who will fork out cash for PV systems after March next year and get nothing.

I read it that new installs after March 19 will get an as yet undetermined amount. (O.K. it may take a bit longer than March and you will probably need a Smets2 smartmeter  bike)
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DonL
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« Reply #10 on: November 24, 2018, 02:58:48 PM »

With a relatively large system I have a half hourly export meter and get paid the princely sum of 4.5p/kWh and pay a metering charge of £54 per year. No deemed export of course.
I see no reason why this will not continue after the FIT's finish as it's a straight forward commercial deal not dependent on government support. It would be nice to think that the export metering could be supplied via the smart meters for smaller generators in the future.
Crystal ball gazing suggests we may have the option to buy and sell electricity at different rates during the day making home batteries financially viable and helping meet peak loads on the grid...
Don
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RIT
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« Reply #11 on: November 24, 2018, 03:25:09 PM »


But the main issue here is for the poor sods who will fork out cash for PV systems after March next year and get nothing.

I'm not sure that there will be any such people. With the total lack of support for the market, I would expect most of the MSC approved installers to go under or find new markets. The problem can be seen with the following marketing from a PV installer with the current FiTs payments

Quote
A typical 4kW solar panel system will generate savings of up to £6,850 over 20 years and cost around £6,000. That’s a return on investment of almost £1,000.

Using their current marketing you are looking at a claimed return of less than 0.7%pa and that's before you factor in the odd replacement inverter. To make things even work their fine print states that a 4kW system costs between £6,000 and £8,000, rather than their headline £6,000.
« Last Edit: November 24, 2018, 03:41:40 PM by RIT » Logged

2.4kW PV system, output can be seen at  - https://pvoutput.org/list.jsp?userid=49083

Why bother? - well, there is no planet B
JohnS
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« Reply #12 on: November 24, 2018, 03:40:26 PM »

All i know is it has been done and presume you still can. You have to pay for the export meter.  However i am thinking that the latest MK2 smart meters can do this ??   It may just depend on the attitude of the local DNO.  Viable ? -i boubt it except for farmers with shed roofs etc.

Well sort of.  SMETS2 meters should but needless to say they don't.  Instead it appears that they add the export to the import and bill you for the gross amount.  Gross incompetence.

This article appears to be outside the DT paywall:

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/11/09/households-solar-panels-risk-overcharged-smart-meters/

"A BEIS spokesperson said energy firms were to blame, saying: “Smart meters are compatible with microgeneration, including solar panels.""
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2.1kWp solar PV
Iain
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« Reply #13 on: November 24, 2018, 04:41:01 PM »

Hi
As my PV started on the ROC system (we were only paid for actual export, 28 p/kWh, I think) before transferring to the FIT system, I have an export meter fitted and now I am on FIT, I get paid "actual" export instead of deemed.
So could be useful in the future ,post FIT.

Iain
« Last Edit: November 24, 2018, 04:43:13 PM by Iain » Logged

1.98kWp PV (11 x Sharp 180 and SB 2.5)
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linesrg
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« Reply #14 on: November 24, 2018, 06:42:07 PM »

Iain,

I'm in the same situation as you as my first 1.28kW was installed under ROC and SSE fitted a meter capable of measuring any export so I've alway been paid for what I export. It would have been nice to get the 50% deemed export but........ I can't complain being a very early adopter and the current level of remuneration for each kWHr produced.

Regards

Richard
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1.28kW on a Lorentz ETATRACK1000 + 1.44kW/ SB3000TL-21 (FIT), 1.28kW/ SB1700 (ROO/FIT). CTC GSi12 heat pump/Ecosol/Flowbox 8010e/Gledhill ASL0085 EHS/3off Navitron 4720AL Solar ET & Immersun T1060/T1070/T1090. 3.375kW/ SMA SB3600TL-21 and a Sunny Island 4.4M-12 c/w 15.2kWh battery and a Renault Zoe.
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