navitron
 
Renewable Energy and Sustainability Forum
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
News: Anyone wishing to register as a new member on the forum is strongly recommended to use a "proper" email address. Following continuous spam/hack attempts on the forum, "disposable" email addresses like Gmail, Yahoo and Hotmail tend to be viewed with suspicion, and the application rejected if there is any doubt whatsoever
 
Recent Articles: Navitron Partners With Solax to Help Create A More Sustainable Future | Navitron Calls for Increased Carbon Footprint Reduction In Light of Earth Overshoot Day | A plea from The David School - Issue 18
   Home   Help Search Login Register  
Pages: [1] 2   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: Battery  (Read 2408 times)
hilltopsolar
Jr. Member
**
Offline Offline

Posts: 98



« on: March 01, 2019, 01:11:13 PM »

Probably been covered before but any thoughts on a battery hookup .5k includes a replacement inverter.
https://batterystorage.edfenergy.com/powervault/powervault-with-grid-services/
Logged
RIT
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 2317

South West London


« Reply #1 on: March 01, 2019, 02:39:15 PM »

Probably been covered before but any thoughts on a battery hookup .5k includes a replacement inverter.
https://batterystorage.edfenergy.com/powervault/powervault-with-grid-services/

The issue all ways seems to come down to payback.

If you manage to store and use 8.2kWh via the battery every day for 10 years you will have cycled 29,930kWh (excluding the lifetime drop in capacity) via the battery, as the battery/inverter's efficiency is not quoted it is hard to say how much electricity is consumed during this additional energy will be needed to charge and some will be lost during discharge. So somehow you have to save more than at least the purchase price of 5,000 and the cost of the electricity use to do the charging to make it worthwhile. Currently, the difference in cost between overnight E7 electricity and the standard daytime rate is not great enough to do this and even cycling it daily with free PV electricity does not cover the purchase cost of the equipment when compared to current electricity costs of around 13p per kWh.

A more complicated aspect to battery storage is that it is still getting cheaper. So this 5,000 system may cost just 4,500 in a years time, so you can do nothing for a year and see a 500 'saving'.
Logged

2.4kW PV system, output can be seen at  - https://pvoutput.org/list.jsp?userid=49083

Join the fight against human malware at https://stats.foldingathome.org/team/259956

Why bother? - well, there is no planet B
andrewellis
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 134


« Reply #2 on: March 01, 2019, 02:49:41 PM »

A more complicated aspect to battery storage is that it is still getting cheaper. So this 5,000 system may cost just 4,500 in a years time, so you can do nothing for a year and see a 500 'saving'.

I was looking at the pylon batteries only a few days ago and in the last year they have gone from 650 to 400 per kWh.
Logged

6.48kw Solar PV JA (300W)Panels, SolarEdge inverter
Borehole -> Nibe F1255 12kw GSHP -> Radiators
Nissan Leaf
mbeast
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 26


« Reply #3 on: July 20, 2019, 10:41:01 AM »

A more complicated aspect to battery storage is that it is still getting cheaper. So this 5,000 system may cost just 4,500 in a years time, so you can do nothing for a year and see a 500 'saving'.

I was looking at the pylon batteries only a few days ago and in the last year they have gone from 650 to 400 per kWh.

I got the US3000 x 6 at 850 + vat each and seem to give me 20 KWh of power from full connected to my Lux hybrid inverter Smiley

just need more panels to fully charge the batteries but then i'm not sure if that will need to be informed or not as the inverters can be ran in series and set to zero export.
Logged

2 x LXP5K Hybrid parallel Inverter's
6 x Pylontech US3000 Batteries
40 x 285w Panels
Solarchaser
Jr. Member
**
Offline Offline

Posts: 62


« Reply #4 on: July 20, 2019, 08:40:26 PM »

There is a user called Mmmmikey on the money saving expert forum who has recently installed the EDF offering, and is quite happy with it.
I'd say look him up, seems a good lad and is happy to share his experiences.
There is a thread titled home battery storage or similar, which is quite a read, but still ongoing.
For me, it's over the odds, but everyone has to make their own choices.

I have a sofar me3000sp and 7.2kwh (6kwh useable) of pylon batteries.
You can get the same system on ebay for around 3K.

I paid a bit less for mine as I got the sofar and one battery second hand.
Then paid 1500 for two pylontech batteries around 9 months ago.

I know everyone keeps saying the battery prices have dropped, but I'm not really seeing it tbh, certainly not in the last year. In fact I'd say they have raised In price with the brexit debacle.

Pylontech when i started looking a year ago were 375 /kwh useable,  and they seem to be around 400/kwh useable now
Logged
billi
Global Moderator
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 9073



WWW
« Reply #5 on: July 21, 2019, 09:01:45 AM »

 i only would pay  about 60 GBP  per usable  KWh  or about 5   pence   per kWh (before warranty runs out)

Battery produced in Europe   and completely (98%)  recyclable


Billi

« Last Edit: July 21, 2019, 10:38:31 AM by billi » Logged

1.6 kw and 2.4 kw   PV array  , Outback MX 60 and FM80 charge controller  ,24 volt 1600 AH Battery ,6 Kw Victron inverter charger, 1.1 kw high head hydro turbine as a back up generator , 5 kw woodburner, 36 solar tubes with 360 l water tank, 1.6 kw  windturbine
Solarchaser
Jr. Member
**
Offline Offline

Posts: 62


« Reply #6 on: July 21, 2019, 01:04:32 PM »

Then I'd imagine you will be waiting quite a while Smiley

Not sure how you are arriving at your figure.
The pylontech are warrantied for 6000 cycles at 80% DOD, which at your 5p/kwh gives 300/kwh
« Last Edit: July 21, 2019, 01:08:22 PM by Solarchaser » Logged
nowty
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1064



« Reply #7 on: July 21, 2019, 02:00:52 PM »

The pylontech are warrantied for 6000 cycles at 80% DOD, which at your 5p/kwh gives 300/kwh

And second hand Growatt's come in at about only 100 per kWh (capacity).

Lifecycle spec is 5000+ so even with some loss of capacity being second hand that would bring cost of each useable kwh down to around 2p.
« Last Edit: July 21, 2019, 02:07:06 PM by nowty » Logged

12kW+ of PV installed and 60+ MWh's generated.
Home battery storage of 40+ kWh's.
Hot water storage of 15+ kWh's.
Heat storage of 15+ kWh's.
6kW Ground source heatpump.
EV BMW i3 (another 30+ kWh's of storage).
300,000+ litres of water harvested from underground river.
billi
Global Moderator
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 9073



WWW
« Reply #8 on: July 21, 2019, 02:56:12 PM »

Then I'd imagine you will be waiting quite a while Smiley

Not sure how you are arriving at your figure.
The pylontech are warrantied for 6000 cycles at 80% DOD, which at your 5p/kwh gives 300/kwh

well lads let me think again  Grin


 my battery came from a forklift  after waranty     paid 1300 Euros for a 40 kWh  battery  minus  now the   recycling value   is    about  800 euro investment  , as far as i  know i used it for 10 years  thats then  120 month  or   6 Euro  route 66  per month   a tiny bit more than one pint of Guinness  , well my girlfriend would be happy about that one pint .....  a spotyfy, youtube , amazon acount costs more per month  !    Are we   really talking about costs ?  And are scared of them  ? 
Logged

1.6 kw and 2.4 kw   PV array  , Outback MX 60 and FM80 charge controller  ,24 volt 1600 AH Battery ,6 Kw Victron inverter charger, 1.1 kw high head hydro turbine as a back up generator , 5 kw woodburner, 36 solar tubes with 360 l water tank, 1.6 kw  windturbine
Solarchaser
Jr. Member
**
Offline Offline

Posts: 62


« Reply #9 on: July 21, 2019, 03:44:28 PM »

Erm, you were the one who mentioned being scared of them.
And wanted a warranty even though your own purchase was out of warranty.....
And then are saying yours lasted 10 years out of warranty,  so the comparison could easily be made for the pylontech.

So if we take the 6000 cycles / 10 years and then double it as you have put 10 years on yours out of warranty we then come to a return of 600/kwh, (using the 5p/kwh )so I guess the 375/kwh they are at is a really good deal. Thanks for making that case Cheesy
Logged
billi
Global Moderator
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 9073



WWW
« Reply #10 on: July 21, 2019, 05:15:46 PM »

well , deal or no deal , not anything i think of  , just  letting you know that my  battery is simply 15 years old now    so    you have 15  years ahead , enjoy  fingers crossed!
Logged

1.6 kw and 2.4 kw   PV array  , Outback MX 60 and FM80 charge controller  ,24 volt 1600 AH Battery ,6 Kw Victron inverter charger, 1.1 kw high head hydro turbine as a back up generator , 5 kw woodburner, 36 solar tubes with 360 l water tank, 1.6 kw  windturbine
dickster
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 271


« Reply #11 on: July 22, 2019, 10:25:41 AM »

Here we are, global climate change nipping at our heels and the discussion (with many valid points) is about payback time. Whilst not all of us can afford PV and battery, a lot of people could.

Our 2.3 kW PV and Tesla Powerwall 2 went in last December. Total cost 11.5K. Ridiculous. But I now can use the sun to run my house through the summer and in the winter use overnight "unwanted" grid power (purportedly green) and in doing so, help balance the grid out a little. All in all we just about generate as much as we use, thereby reducing our carbon footprint from now on to a minimum, at least for household use.

It will take us nearly 30 years to achieve payback and we'll be very lucky if we get anywhere near it. So what.

Grandchildren visiting next weekend.   
Logged
GarethC
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 320


« Reply #12 on: July 22, 2019, 10:44:37 AM »

Well, financial payback matters less than the amount you reduce emissions for a given investment (as anyone's cash is limited, so helps if we use it in the most environmentally beneficial way).

But emissions come with a cost (the cost of your gas, electricity petrol etc), so an investment that reduces emissions more will, to an extent at least, tend to save you more money and provide a better payback.

This is why I think I'd invest 11.5k in a renewable energy fund before installing PV on my home and a lot of other measures. 11.5k buys a lot more PV or wind at utility scale prices, so you're doing a lot more for the environment that way.

I think...
Logged
phoooby
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 654


« Reply #13 on: July 22, 2019, 11:32:36 AM »

There are plenty of new Ranger Rovers and other gas guzzlers I see on almost a daily basis that cost the same amount as my 2 new ev's, tesla PW and 10kw of PV. I think it is a matter of how you spend your money rather than payback within 8,9,10, however many years.
Logged

10.2kw Solar Edge PV. Tesla PW2, Myenergi Zappi and Eddi
Nissan Leaf 24 (gone)
Tesla Model S
Nissan env-200
88k ev miles and rising
6kw WBS
nowty
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1064



« Reply #14 on: July 22, 2019, 12:05:01 PM »

Well, financial payback matters less than the amount you reduce emissions for a given investment (as anyone's cash is limited, so helps if we use it in the most environmentally beneficial way).

But emissions come with a cost (the cost of your gas, electricity petrol etc), so an investment that reduces emissions more will, to an extent at least, tend to save you more money and provide a better payback.

This is why I think I'd invest 11.5k in a renewable energy fund before installing PV on my home and a lot of other measures. 11.5k buys a lot more PV or wind at utility scale prices, so you're doing a lot more for the environment that way.

I think...

With wind, I agree, but not for solar, the scalability advantage of PV is minimal, a savvy DIYer can beat a renewable energy fund hands down.

The latest 5MW farms bought by Bluefield Solar fund (earlier this year) cost them approx 1.33 per watt.

My latest 1.7kW addition with new quality Panasonic panels, almost new quality SMA inverter, mounting kit, cables, isolators cost me 1,200.
Thats 0.70p per watt, nearly half the cost.


Logged

12kW+ of PV installed and 60+ MWh's generated.
Home battery storage of 40+ kWh's.
Hot water storage of 15+ kWh's.
Heat storage of 15+ kWh's.
6kW Ground source heatpump.
EV BMW i3 (another 30+ kWh's of storage).
300,000+ litres of water harvested from underground river.
Pages: [1] 2   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.20 | SMF © 2013, Simple Machines
SMFAds for Free Forums
Simple Audio Video Embedder
Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!