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Author Topic: 99cc petrol powered 12volt Battery charger.  (Read 2453 times)
biff
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« on: September 02, 2018, 12:18:06 PM »

  I built this charger some time ago,
                                  I was happy enough with it initially but then, I realised that If I had geared the alternator with a 125,, pulley and the shaft of the engine with a 55,, pulley, I would have plenty of power and enough speed, I would have in fact, increased the power by almost 100%. The belt could be a timing belt and the pulleys timing pulleys. So I spent considerable time thinking this through.
  At the moment I can get 600watt out of it comfortably and I measure this by using variable speed drills and grinders. The engine can cope but just. Then as I studied the carb and the linkage to the same, i noted that there were a series of little holes on the governor one was for increase and decrease in fuel and the other end of the spring was adjustable  for response time to sudden loads.


   So when I get time, I will change things around and see if it operates better, I ran the 220ac power from a 1200watts x 12volt inverter which was connected directly to a 75ah   battery, so the equipment was more or less being run directly from the alternator and the 99cc engine.
   This whole idea is about drilling holes and grinding and cutting steel on a whiff of petrol as well as driving led floodlights on a lower/slower setting. It is in fact a type of inverter generator.
  This is worth building and keeping safe and ready for use. you can imagine how handy this would be if your car or truck has a flat battery,. It will lift and fill a battery in 5 to 10 minutes. It could be built much lighter and smaller. My next one will be a 150amp x 24volt, not anytime soon but definitely.
   I might sound like someone who is trying to get 1000 watt out of a 500watt W/T prop, knowing that the blade area cannot possibly deliver  but  but. Grin
                                                                 Biff
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« Reply #1 on: November 11, 2018, 07:22:55 PM »

Finally,
        I got a few hours and stripped down the charger. removing the engine and dismantling the coupling from both Engine and Alternator. The Alternator was fine but the engine shaft was the worst for wear.
  The bearings were fine but the lower crank seal was degraded and the oil was starting to sweat out into the wind tunnel below. Despite taking extreme care fitting the engine with the alternator already couple,,letting it rest slightly on it,s brackets so that everything fell into line,,It just did not work out. The coupling must have been just that little out of line that it caused the wear to score the shaft and make it difficult to remove the coupling. It needed a lot of effort with the proper pullers. the grub screws which were screwed into where the key would normally be on the shaft must have chewed the edges of the key channel and hence the difficulty in removing the coupling. But I got it done.




    I would have clocked up about 8 hours of use in its direct drive form and it proved to be quite a versatile little thing,even with only 600watt on tap and the Variable speed tools. I made the alternator pulley wider again at 165mm and the drive pulley 60mm So I should be able to coax a lot more power out of the engine without stressing it and at the same time keeping it under load.
 It is about economy, all about what you get out of a cup full of petrol. Its charging capabilities and power to drive tools. I kept a small Honda 160 lx Generator for years. It was a fantastic little generator and very very easy on petrol. I expect this to be as good but to also have the capability to charge 12 volt battery packs which the Honda could not do economically.
 I have the alternator secured to the frame but a bit of welding needs to be done to form new brackets for the engine mountings. The wiring , etc should all go back in the way it was but perhaps a little more easy to access.
     It is a good project and beats watching the telly hands down.
                                             Biff
   
   
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« Reply #2 on: November 18, 2018, 05:43:32 PM »

  It lives,  I had very little time yesterday to play with it but today i fitted the adjuster bracket, secured the engine and sealed off the barrel from the Alternator pulley. The original plan was to leave the frame ready to take the alternator belt driven if the direct drive did not work out, so it was a simple enough conversion, All the electrics go back in the same place but the fans are moved to the front and the back sealed off ,to force the air out past the Alternator and up towards the engine sump.

  It could all be a waste of time but I don,t think so. I am hoping for 1500watt steady,There is considerable resistance from the Alternator and I may have to fit a tensioner to increase the belt area on the engine pulley, but we will see, so far so good.
                                      Biff
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« Reply #3 on: November 19, 2018, 01:16:09 PM »

It was 6 O clock start for me today,
                         The dawn was pink Ivory brush marks against a harsh slate grey sky. Good dry roads made driving easy and safe. Back home around 10ish and keen to start the charger.
  Nice new oil and clean petrol, A few pumps on the red plunger and a few pulls and off she went.
   This is quite good. I tested it on the 1200watt grinder, drills etc but most of all on the grinder set to max power.
The governor never budged once while I was cutting through steel. The Inverter is a 1200watt affair which I have had for many years.
It starts very easily under load. The charging light is hanging on the frame to the right of the engine. The ratio is a 60mm engine pulley to a 165mm alternator pulley.I would use a 150mm pulley but the one that is fitted at present has a built in damper and shock absorber fitted. The whole machine runs very steady and smooth. I intend to do a good bit of cutting and drilling and then tighten everything up and install the permanent wiring loom.
So if you have the time, a spare lawnmower engine and a spare alternator ,some angle iron ,you can design and build a more compact one. The pulley measurements above are good enough for 1.5kw in AC easily and can charge a battery bank in an emergency... It is all about squeezing the most out of a half cup of precious fossil fuel.
All you need is the alternator and the engine + an ignition light not less than 5watt. The alternator does everything by itself without any outside controller, just make sure that you get the ignition light correctly wired up.
                 Biff.
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« Reply #4 on: December 01, 2018, 08:20:03 PM »

H,mmmm
          Well, It did not quite go the way i expected and yet i know there is a 99cc limit set on the engine no matter how much I gear it down.
 I swoped the engine drive pulley from 55,, to 70mm . Yes For some crazy reason I had left in a 55mm pulley to get a centre fitted and that left me with a ratio of 1 to 3 exactly.
 This was fine but I am after economy and having to set the rev on the engine to near max on the adjuster spring on the engine, I realised that economy was the last thing I was getting. I was hoping to slow the engine down not speed it up. So on Thursday I got a new centre/spacer fitted to a 70mm 5 rail pulley and changed them over last night. This forenoon , i had a few hours to test the grinder cutting in 10 minute bursts, (sore on the blades) On the minimum rev, I can drive the 1200 watt grinder just below full power on the variable speed switch.The 980watt drill can drill away quite comfortably. I am guessing that the true output at this minimum speed is somewhere around 850 watts. The governors will open up if i push the variable speed switchs to the max and the voltage on the little battery will drop significantly unless I up the revs slightly. There is however excellent charging potential for someone wanting to charge a 12v battery bank and it can output 14.5v+ on the lowest setting, the economy setting into the small 530ah yousha bank. I believe that you could easily charge up this bank in 30 minutes on a half cup of petrol. So for someone on such circumstances that they cannot afford an expensive genset and all the toys that go with it, This could be the answer. The power ratio for the 90amp alternator to the shaft of the 99cc engine needs to be a ratio of 1 to 2.357 approx. The 55mm engine shaft pulley was exactly 1 to 3 and meant that the engine had to race on the higher settings. It was certainly comfortable and not stressed but the economy is the big one. If it cannot go on the smell of the stuff we are wasting our time. Grin. I took good care to check the alternator for overheating. There were no fans being used. The alternator had no bother cooling itself and after a wasting a small tank of petrol on drilling and grinding, it did not rise much above hand temperature..
    Meanwhile I took delivery of a GX200cc Loncin Honda clone. (Supposed to be very very good) and I am waiting for a BMW 180 amp alt.. Not necessarily to share the same belt but will definitely give me something to futter over. To be honest, I doubt if I would have pursued this quest if I had not been successful with the Diesel driven 120vdc PMG house charger. Again it was findng the right ratio between the pulleys that made the difference between success and failure. I am also very aware that PMG generated electricity is effortless. The 1kw x 48volt needs less than 400rpm to deliver 1200 watts. There is blood available out of the stone,,,,almost. hysteria
                             Biff
   
 
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« Reply #5 on: December 02, 2018, 07:40:11 AM »

Sounds good fun Biff,

I almost keep pressing the 'Buy' button for one of those Loncin 200 engines for a little pressure washer project I have in mind. I have a GX160 on it at the moment and it really struggles. This pressure washer will then be a little like 'Triggers broom' having had three pumps and two engines in twenty five years  hysteria They'll have to be good to replace a Honda though, don't think I've ever worn one out and I've one that's thirty plus years old on a 2" water pump. I once lent that pump to the local fire brigade to pump out the cellar of a Georgian mansion then didn't use it for over ten years. When I eventually started using it to prime my hydro turbine the thing started second pull  Shocked Methinks it's a Loncin on me 3000w Chinese generator and whilst the genny itself is falling apart and rusting nicely it always starts first time and uses very little fuel.
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'Off grid' since 1985,  Proven 2.5kW, Proven 6kW direct heating, SI6.OH, 800ah Rolls, 4.75kW PV ,4xTS45, Lister HR2 12kW, , Powerspout pelton, Stream Engine turgo, 60 x Navitron toobs and a 1500lt store. Outback VFX3048 and 950ah forklifts for backup,
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« Reply #6 on: December 13, 2018, 05:30:39 PM »

Aye Paul,
          It is good fun. My new 200cc engine is still wrapped up in it,s box. The new charger design will be quite different. I need to make a model of the frame in wood, I now have a good accurate idea of the pulley ratios and can avoid the expense of under or over geared ratios. I now know that the 95amp valeo would have worked perfectly with matching pulleys to the 200cc engine. And the more powerful engine would have been more economic and run much slower powering the 1200watt  220ac inverter.. yet the smaller 99cc hyundai can produce a steady 600watt on an extremely small amount of petrol while running slower, once it is forced to run faster to power heavier loads above its comfort zone, the economy goes out the window.
 Some of the modern alternators are things of great reliability, intelligence and beauty. The modern car with motorised heated seats, motorised sunroofs, big cats and the kitchen sink cannot afford to have dodgy alts or the whole cars reputation goes down the drain. Most of the clever stuff is done by the brain which can protect the alt from over loading or overheating. It would be nice to be able to use those facilities like the brain does. Grin
                                Biff
 
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« Reply #7 on: December 24, 2018, 04:13:07 PM »

I decided to become a little more original and do a different design with double the power and more accurate matching of Amps to HP. So I have learned a little in the process. The engine is a 200cc Chinese Lifan and comes with all the bells and whistles including low oil cut out, key starter and 19mm drive shaft.
   The new design is aimed at simplicity and the frame work will be built in 40mm x 35mm treated timber. It was all that I had handy and can go in the stove when i am finished with the charger and building it in steel. I have a choice of alts One from a beemer X5 at 180amp, and one from another beemer at 150amp, Both fit the same brackets. Both can have their regulators replaced by the ordinary heavy duty Valeo regulator that carries the ignition light without contact from the brain. Both are fine pieces of kit and should deliver some big amps.
    The pulley on the engine was built at the local engineering works. I like the flat belts. The alternator has an 80mm and the engine a 60mm one.
 It has been a hectic few weeks up to Christmas but during the inbetween time i will get peace to put is together and see what it can do.
            Biff
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« Reply #8 on: February 16, 2019, 03:42:46 PM »




     I am looking forward to getting this going, Perhaps tomorrow if the weather is warm enough. The engine is 196cc The alt is 100 to 150amp BMW Valeo. I may not be able to Run the full BMW but its great to be able to run the Alt. The Beemer Brain is bypassed by replacing the Brain controlled internal regulator with the standard Valeo ign light regulator. These Alts have an incredible reputation for hard work and reliability.
My main aim is to just get a steady 1200watt ac  from it. These Alts have twin fans and all kinds of smart tech. We will see.
 The frame is a model and gives a clear perspective of what kind of space one needs before committing to building in steel. N-Cad is good but it depends on measurements given and the measurements change with the weather, It will also run long enough to give a proper indication of it,s viability.
 The engine has it,s own battery. I dare not link it up to the main bank or it could possible fry the internal alt on the engine flywheel. (expensive) It has low oil warning light , Low oil cutout,  Circuit fault warning light..H,mmmm. How on earth did I ever manage without these little goodies before now. Shocked Shocked
   This will be my last 12volt charging project. I will be stripping down frame and putting away the bolts and nuts carefully..the wood screws go back in their box and the wood goes in the stove. The engine will be replaced by the 196cc  non key start model. The present keystart one will power a 1kw x 48volt pmg  and run on bottle gas. When i get around to it.
    Working with a mix of wood and steel is interesting to say the least. It is only when you are half way through it that you realise a steel version would take only half the time. But it is fun and of course you do not know exactly what space you need to you are well into the build. With wood and spax screws you can enlarge or reduce it at will, You can reinforce it and brace it, put long legs or short legs or wheels, Is it worth it, ?  I would think so. If you lived off grid and wanted something to bang big amps into a big 12 volt batterty bank than this will definitely do the business.
  There is quite a lot of info on the net about such builds but it is badly out of date and there are some characters showing builds operating without batteries but they are only running led lights..or have a little long narrow Li-Po4 battery hidden in the frame. There are those who show us perpetual motion and such..You have to love them for their sincerity and hope the wife don,t sling them out on the street when the rent is due.
  This past 10 years there has been a bunch of hi-tech alts to hit the market. They are powerful and clever and can make the maximum use of your fossil fuel. Some of these Alts when working with the brain can act like a UPS and prioritise different outlets holding the load steady  and making the utmost use of the power. Even though the alt has twin fans they are still temperature controlled. Smart and long lived.
  Still the raw 3phase is unbeatable. The PMG is practically indestructible.
There is nothing to stop anyone from building a 24volt version with a truck Alt or a handy Bus Alt. Some of the Bus alts are the bees knees and can be repaired at home. There is a Volvo 120amp x 24volt that is quite interesting. The marine ones need only 1200 rpm to perform  to max. Some are self exciting.
     Anyway,,25amps = 1 horse,  
                100amops =4horses. etc.
     Then a 6.5 lump says it is 4.5kw.. and then some engine manufacturers  tell fibs about the power of their little lumps.
  I leave you all to ponder. I could not do this when i was 10 years old because the only way I could get an engine or such an alternator was to send of to America for it. So now that I have been put out to grass,,I can faff about and do it all before I kick the bucket. I have visions of my grand kids rumagging through my works of art when I am gone.  My daughter tells me that I am regressing to my childhood and says to her sons,,"See,,this is what I have to put up with " We grin and bear it,
                                    Biff
                        
    
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« Reply #9 on: February 16, 2019, 07:38:56 PM »

Hi Biff. A colleague of mine runs Lifan-engined motorbikes, (125cc), and to date they have proved to be ok. He has only blown one up so far, and that is because he is a two-stroke man, and cannot understand that you need to warm a 4-stroke engine up before you load it. (he used to cane the hell out of it stone cold to max revs until it threw it's rod and stopped). As you and I well know, treat it well, give it good fuel and oil, and it will go the distance.
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EpEver 4210A at 24v
24V 400 Ah battery. (4x200Ah FLA)
EpEver STI1000-24-230 pure sine inverter
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« Reply #10 on: February 20, 2019, 06:31:34 PM »








    This seems to be turning out quite good. I am very impressed with the engine that can fill the clock on the bigger battery ticking over. It also starts under load with just a little half pull. If I had known that i would not have bothered with the keystart. The engine alternator is also pretty powerful. AC House generators generally speaking only charge around 8amps,,This one is charging a lot more than that.
  The BMW alternator is a really clever piece of kit. No jumping about with the charging voltage just a smooth steady up and down.
I like the three levers in the vertical row, the fuel lever, the choke and the throttle. It is nice to get something like this that does exactly what it says on the tin. No damage, no leaks, No smoke, Just a little half pull and it off. I used an old transit interior light switch as an ignition light. 3watt is ideal..
If any members would like to know the pulley ratios or the BMW regulator number, ( it is the least expensive one,,it works without the brain),
 If I get another rain free spell tomorrow i will organise it to charge the bank and test it on the power tools. It needs at least a good hour running to see how it performs but the signs are good so far.
The wooden frame is odd no doubt but it also absorbs the sound and vibrations, It really does. At half revs, it is very smooth and quiet,surprisingly so. I am looking forward to getting a decent gas kit.
 As young Jennifer Aniston says..Because we,re worth it.
                                      Biff
          
    
      
« Last Edit: February 27, 2019, 05:25:20 PM by biff » Logged

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« Reply #11 on: February 20, 2019, 06:46:06 PM »

I don't on these threads much biff because I don't really have anything to add, but well don that's looking good


when I was a kid I built some battery chargers like that driving the alternator with an electric motor.... motors from my dads spares/scrap pile.... think I burn out about 3 because they were too small before my dad bought me a bigger one from a scrap man... it was great fun tho :-)
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« Reply #12 on: March 23, 2019, 06:51:43 PM »





  pics as promised Knighty,. This is a very enjoyable project. I have decided to reserve the key start for another project and the absence of the alternator and key start box will give me both more power and more room to house and inverter.......perhaps. The two sets of startups will now be housed to the right of the recoil. I am hoping to fins a way to register the revs from the alternator and add a temp sensor to the controller. I have bypassed the brain and i,m trying to pick up the feeds to both the rpm and the temperature in side the alt. BMW alts are clever stuff and I mean honest clever. They actually deliver the power that they are rated for, Unlike some makes who quote astronomical outputs and then use a brain to cheat by prioritizing the supply and starving other auxiliaries. They all do that to a certain extent because it also saves fuel but some over do it and kill batteries rather quickly. The alts are not just up to the job when the full demand is on.
   The pop riveter is quick and trouble free. It is certainly not as strong as the bolts that i have used up until now but it only has to hold it together correctly and square until I get it built,,tested and then welded. The pop riveter was 12.50 and free delivery some years back. I expected it to fall apart in the first few hours but it is remarkably strong and the head can reach into tricky spots while the rest can flex and bend round corners. The rivets have followed me around since 1991. One time I had a 2 gallon bucket of them but over the years the numbers shrunk.
   It has been a nice sunny day with a decent breeze. A pleasant break from the recent storms.
                                              Biff
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« Reply #13 on: June 26, 2019, 01:28:51 PM »

The sun is splitting rocks here but the grass is still soaking,
                                                    We must have had a downpour during the night, So the mower is out and ready for action with the extending leads all leading back to our diesel house geni.
Which bring me to the recent offer in Aldis of a 200euros inverter geni, A 54cc(I think) 2 stroke jobbie.. It looks good on paper and might be in the store this weekend.
  My own version of an inverter geni below, is fitted with a 1200watt modified sine wave inverter. It can easily throw 100amps @ 14.7volts into a sizable 12volt battery bank and would be an ideal baby for an off grid set up. The alternator runs between 100amps and 150 amps and delivers the 100amps ticking over.I intend eventually to convert it to propane. not that the gas is cheaper but because it is greener, quieter and much much cleaner every way.The conversion kit is quite reasonably priced.
These particular Lifans come with Honda made carbs,(made in Japan) and take the Honda gas conversion kit with no diddling about.


    I have altered this at least 3 times. Still I am not happy. Yesterday in the mid day heat of the sun, I was powering the vacuum cleaner of it, Simply step up the revs slightly till the voltage is reading 14.5 with the vacuum cleaner on, The battery is 65amp. So after 20 minutes of this, I switched off and felt the machine for heat spots. Everything was warm including the inverter. so it needs a heat shied between it and the engine. simple enough but I am now considering fitting the inverter similar to the present set-up but with hinges on the rack so that when it is needed, it hinges out flat on rubber mounting. The present mountings are not bad at all. I am using door card clips pushed inside small rubber gussets. between the inverter and the vertical white steel rack, bottom pic.
  Is it worth it. ? I think so. If you are off grid with a 12volt system this machine can push a load of power into your batts directly..No transformers or running a separate geni  to power a battery 12 0r 20 amp battery charger. So in a worst situations with no incoming renewable energy power. You fire up and it can power the house in either AC or DC. it should push enough energy into the bank to be able to be switched off for 2 or 3 hours. That means if it runs for 40 minutes while charging the bank, it can be switched off and not started until the voltage comes down to the 12,3 mark under load..The load being somewhere around 350watt. telly pump and fridge. So a necessary bank that could soak up the energy from the alternator and then allow it to be distributed into the house over a period of say 3 hours would mean that running costs would be at least a 3rd of normal geni costs, bearing in mind that it can be fired up immediately.
   All the parts are very easily sourced and fitting any single part can be done in less than an hour easily. The very same idea can be applied to 24volt systems or even 48 but 48 volt alternators are hellish expensive. With PMG ,48 volt would be ideal but you need space for the controller  x inverter and the whole kit would weigh 100kgs +.
  This 12v charge above was supposed to be built in a lightweight manner but that idea went out the window as things began to progress, At the moment is is a dirty lift and gives me a hernia even thinking about lifting it. So I have it on a rail on a detachable skid.
  The sky id clouding over, I have lawns to cut. Freda is on the cheese once again, Lola is crazy about me especially when she is hungry. I must read up on diplomacy and see if I can arrange a treaty between one little winged dictator and a slinky cat who has eyes in the back of her head.
                        Biff
   
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« Reply #14 on: June 26, 2019, 04:00:54 PM »

The little wheel-around base for your genny looks very similar to a dolly I bought in Lidl's last week for 10. It has a very nice multi-layer ply base to it, 4 stout 3" castors, and is rated at 250kg. I had to buy it because it was there, but it is handy for moving heavy stuff around the workshop.
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1.140kW mono south-facing at 49*
EpEver 4210A at 24v
24V 400 Ah battery. (4x200Ah FLA)
EpEver STI1000-24-230 pure sine inverter
Of course it'll work. (It hasn't caught fire yet).
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