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Author Topic: Home Charging  (Read 1799 times)
Westie
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« Reply #15 on: February 19, 2019, 03:54:38 PM »

The data applies to my own case, which is a large amount of generating capacity. But even then, you can't save more than you spend!
Don't let this discourage everybody; people with a large electricity bill could do a lot better and people with high summer usage (campsite shower blocks etc.) should be able to make a really strong case for storage batteries.
Don

I think from your figures the long term solution is going to be to just use part of the car's battery capacity once 'car to home/grid' solutions become mainstream. The only problem is that such solutions still seem to be coming 'soon'.
I'm with you there but a little concerned about what it would do to the warranty on the car battery as it will probably see a lot more cycles than it would in normal car use.

That's a very good point you raise about the manufacturers warranty on an EV battery, these warranties are currently quoted as lasting 8 years or 100k miles. With the adoption of V2H / V2G, an EV battery warranty would change to cover a guaranteed number of cycles which would inevitably mean a shorter battery warranty periiod.

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nowty
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« Reply #16 on: February 19, 2019, 04:13:11 PM »

I'm with you there but a little concerned about what it would do to the warranty on the car battery as it will probably see a lot more cycles than it would in normal car use.

There is a Vehicle to Grid trial project going on at the moment with OVO energy and Nissan Leaf cars.

OVO had to get agreement with Nissan that the warranty would still be valid.

https://www.ovoenergy.com/electric-cars/vehicle-to-grid-charger

"We are working closely with Nissan to ensure that no battery degradation is caused by V2G charging beyond what would be expected from normal charging using a standard EV home charge point. We continue to work with Nissan to make sure that during our trial, your existing warranty will remain unaffected. Please note, our warranty agreement with Nissan only relates to 30kWh and 40kWh Nissan LEAF batteries - if you own a vehicle with a battery capacity lower than 30kWh, use of the V2G charger may invalidate your warranty. Please speak to your warranty provider directly if you have further questions."
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11kW+ of PV installed and 56+ MWh generated.
Lithium battery storage of 50+ kWh.
Hot water storage of 15+ kWh.
Heat storage of 15+ kWh.
6kW Ground source heatpump.
EV BMW i3 (another 30+ kWh's of storage).
260,000+ litres of water harvested from underground river.
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RIT
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« Reply #17 on: February 19, 2019, 05:50:35 PM »

I'm with you there but a little concerned about what it would do to the warranty on the car battery as it will probably see a lot more cycles than it would in normal car use.

True, as how and what the car manufactures will do regarding the warranty is rather unknown. The reality is that a 'car to home' solution should not do to much harm as the amount of discharge and the discharge rate should be fairly low compared to the car being driven on the open road and then charged at 50+ kW. The 64 kWh Kona Electric has an eight-year/125,000-mile warranty, maybe they will just record every kWh drawn from the battery as being 3 or 4 miles of distance travelled. Over time if the BM software is enhanced maybe they will have a warranty that takes into account 'car to home' discharging.

It's odd to think that in a few years time EV's second-hand prices will be supported by the fact that an EV can be considered a battery pack on wheels.
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« Reply #18 on: February 19, 2019, 07:10:03 PM »

Yes, I guess you could have a X number of kWh throughput as a warranty rather than a mileage warranty.

For example the Tesla Powerwall 2 (13.5 kWh pack) has a 10 year unlimited warranty if you use it solely charged via PV, but if you charge it though the grid there is a 37.8 MWh of aggregate throughput within the 10 year warranty.
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11kW+ of PV installed and 56+ MWh generated.
Lithium battery storage of 50+ kWh.
Hot water storage of 15+ kWh.
Heat storage of 15+ kWh.
6kW Ground source heatpump.
EV BMW i3 (another 30+ kWh's of storage).
260,000+ litres of water harvested from underground river.
Home grown Fruit and Veg.
DonL
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« Reply #19 on: February 21, 2019, 01:59:16 PM »

I'm with you there but a little concerned about what it would do to the warranty on the car battery as it will probably see a lot more cycles than it would in normal car use.

True, as how and what the car manufactures will do regarding the warranty is rather unknown. The reality is that a 'car to home' solution should not do to much harm as the amount of discharge and the discharge rate should be fairly low compared to the car being driven on the open road and then charged at 50+ kW. The 64 kWh Kona Electric has an eight-year/125,000-mile warranty, maybe they will just record every kWh drawn from the battery as being 3 or 4 miles of distance travelled. Over time if the BM software is enhanced maybe they will have a warranty that takes into account 'car to home' discharging.

It's odd to think that in a few years time EV's second-hand prices will be supported by the fact that an EV can be considered a battery pack on wheels.

Having had the Leaf for about 9 months a number of my preconceptions about electric cars have been changed. I visualised electric cars could be queueing up at the charge stations like they do for petrol at a supermarket and each taking 45minutes to charge - how could that work? The reality is far different, with a 150 mile range we can go from home in Malvern to Birmingham, Bristol, Gloucester, Worcester, Birmingham airport, Bristol airport (maybe) and get back without a recharge. When visiting friends in Newark we recharge overnight off a 13Amp socket. When I was commuting I would do 60 miles a day so no problem there either. The net result is that in nine months of ownership I've used a fast charger three times. It's a joy to charge at home and not have to go to petrol stations.
I suspect many other owners of EV's may have found the same thing.
So the battery has a pretty easy life and that may help when the car to home duty is added.
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DonL
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« Reply #20 on: February 21, 2019, 05:28:18 PM »

Still waiting for the Zappi firmware update. Told it is coming shortly, but been told that a couple of times Smiley
I'm on 2.032 at present.
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Schuco solar hot water - 3300kWh/annum, 16 BP 4175N PV panels - 2.8kWp, log burner and back boiler and 18 Ying Li 235 PV panels - 4.2kWp, 42kW ground mount PV, 9kW Panasonic ASHP, 40kWh Nissan Leaf
DonL
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« Reply #21 on: March 30, 2019, 04:07:08 PM »

It's time for an update on the Zappi.

Firstly I think it's a really nice piece of kit and wouldn't hesitate to recommend it for a standard application.

My installation was far from standard in that the amount of potential export is high; I wanted to limit the power taken on the circuit with the Zappi on it and I have three phase.

The equipment I ordered was the Zappi, a Harvi wireless sensor and 4 CT's. The Harvi is installed by the main meter to the house and measures import/export on all three phases and the other CT is installed on the supply to the barn to prevent more than 30Amps being pulled from the barn circuit.

When delivered, the new firmware to allow current limiting to the barn either hadn't been installed or didn't work. They provided me with a hub which allowed me to down load and install new firmware which resolved this.

I found that the Zappi stuck on 1.4kW if the export was over about 10kw. They resolved this with a second firmware update.

The Harvi did not reliably communicate with the Zappi which was not unreasonable as I first installed it about 30m away and inside a meter cabinet with big power cables and lumps of metal. I moved it into a plastic box on the outside of the meter cabinet with line of sight to the barn and changed channels. This resolved that problem.

The import/export metering  works on the phase to which the Zappi is connected. But if I turn on net metering which is supposed to measure the power on all three phases it doesn't work. This is still an issue.

The instruction manuals are a bit c**p because they don't keep up with the firmware changes.

I have spent a lot of time to get to this stage, doing tests for them and then installing new firmware.

Their telephone and email support has been good throughout and they are clearly committed to sorting out the problems. This has kept me on board and relatively happy despite the challenges.

So if you have a non-standard application and happy to run the risk that you might have to spend a while messing about it would be worth a punt too.

Finally, a small point, I ordered the tethered unit and it is so much easier to use than dragging out a cable from the boot every time you want to charge.

Don
« Last Edit: March 30, 2019, 04:10:44 PM by DonL » Logged

Schuco solar hot water - 3300kWh/annum, 16 BP 4175N PV panels - 2.8kWp, log burner and back boiler and 18 Ying Li 235 PV panels - 4.2kWp, 42kW ground mount PV, 9kW Panasonic ASHP, 40kWh Nissan Leaf
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