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Author Topic: Battery power depletion overnight and its logical conclusion  (Read 730 times)
pantsmachine
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« on: May 06, 2019, 09:53:46 AM »

Hi Guys,

Our battery install comprising 2 of Pylontech 2.4kwh US2000B & a Goodwe 3600 Hybrid charge controller has been in and operational since Sept 18, 4th qrt starting now).

We were horrified at the start of battery ownership to see the overnight depletion of same and started to chase down the culprits. In our case the majority were caused by an integrated kitchen fridge and two of older units one a fridge and the other a freezer. We replaced all three for two efficient units and left one old freezer which was performing well. There was also a Yamaha soundbar which was basically left on for 9 years.......

Prior to the above works and a few others the system was depleting by 35% between 00.00 & 06.00 = 1.680kwh

Post works we had the depletion down to 21% between 00.00 & 06.00 = 1.008 kwh

We were kicking back at Our Turkish pad last Month and I mentioned to the Boss that looking at the online graphs there was still a draw on batteries that I thought was a tad high and she immediately voiced doubt on the Solar I boost unit. Long story short she was right (again), slightly longer version, as a part of the Goodwe algo the batteries discharge back to the grid at small volumes through the night. The Iboost clamp senses this and will switch on the immersion heater at +100W sensed. This can set up a wee feedback loop within the equipment's sampling windows and effectively the batteries are charging the HWT in the hours of darkness to the tune of 0.381kwh.

I spoke to Marlec and they sent me out a unit which does not fire until +250w sensed, prior to the 250+ units arrival I did it the old fashioned way and switched off the Solar I boost overnight and checked the graph next day.

Post works we had the depletion down to 12% between 00.00 & 06.00 = 0.576 kwh

Once the +250w unit arrived I installed and tested over night, no difference whatsoever and straight back up to 21% depletion. I installed a 7 day timer which powers down the solar I boost overnight.

I then gathered some temperature readings from the freezer units, shut them down and retested 3 hours later to little to no temperature change. I now have 24hour timers running on the two units switching off/on hour about through the night stopping with an on at 03.00 hours and an off from 04.00 to 07.00 where the solar then catches the load.

Post works we had the depletion down to 9% between 00.00 & 06.00 = 0.432kwh

This brings us to the present day, the figures do not marry perfectly as there is a granularity in the graphs, sampling times and when units actually power up/down through the night but its close enough. I have been playing purely for the joy of it, there is no money to be made and ROI if there was any which there isn't since its solar power I am playing for is likely about 100+ years! No matter, I get paid by the Sept 18 reading at 0.280kwh per hour thru the night dropping to 0.072kwh per hour, a 75% reduction in the overnight hourly consumption figure.  extrahappy

Anything beyond this level would be eating into our QOL and there I said we would not go. The remainder alive through the night and on eco settings where possible are printer, Boiler/Hive 2 control gear,  3 phones & answering machine, Sky Q, Network hubs, One fridge unencumbered, one freezer on timer, one fridge/freezer(beer fridge) on timer and finally the solar switch & charge controller gear. I can live with that, I hope this helps someone out there, cheers!






« Last Edit: June 03, 2019, 09:21:18 PM by pantsmachine » Logged

HUGE insulation depth.
5.12 kw PV system with Solar edge.
4.8 kw Pylon tech battery storage.
All Low energy bulbs.
Solar I boost charging 210 ltr OSO system tank.
Balanced & zoned CH wet system & Hive 2
Wood fired thermosiphon cedar hot tub.
Masanobu Fukuoka inspired veg garden & fruit trees
Joeyboswell
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« Reply #1 on: May 06, 2019, 02:39:24 PM »

Thanks for the posting Pants, it makes very interesting reading to me as a 'newby' to all this. I am looking into setting myself up as off grid and can see how important it is to know what is going where!

Many thanks again for taking the trouble to let others know how to do things - some may say it is obvious things to do but believe me there is so much to consider practical examples like you give are marvellous for new members.

Cheers Mike
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kristen
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« Reply #2 on: May 06, 2019, 04:23:18 PM »

We were horrified at the start of battery ownership to see the overnight depletion of same and started to chase down the culprits. In our case the majority were caused by an integrated kitchen fridge and two of older units one a fridge and the other a freezer.

In my case (at the outset, a decade ago, of putting a weekly meter reading into Spreadsheet ... and being horrified / head-scratching at consumption) I narrowed it down to two American Fridge-Freezers that previous owner had "kindly" left us. Dawned on me that I had never heard the compressor go off ... cleaned out the vents and that fixed that - and made the kitchen quiet ... but even so they went on ebay for a few quid each shortly thereafter
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pantsmachine
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« Reply #3 on: May 06, 2019, 04:32:29 PM »

No worries Joey, glad it helped. Just passing along the wee 'aha' moments I have read of or had as inspiration. There have been at least four distinct learning curves in my pursuit of efficiency whether battery, thermal or the chasing South of the annual kwattage in gas or electric form each with many runs back through at a later date when new experience  level triggers something.

 I've not found a better all round site than this one, welcome onboard and good fortune to you in your own journey. Smiley
« Last Edit: May 06, 2019, 04:50:36 PM by pantsmachine » Logged

HUGE insulation depth.
5.12 kw PV system with Solar edge.
4.8 kw Pylon tech battery storage.
All Low energy bulbs.
Solar I boost charging 210 ltr OSO system tank.
Balanced & zoned CH wet system & Hive 2
Wood fired thermosiphon cedar hot tub.
Masanobu Fukuoka inspired veg garden & fruit trees
pantsmachine
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« Reply #4 on: May 06, 2019, 04:36:44 PM »

We were horrified at the start of battery ownership to see the overnight depletion of same and started to chase down the culprits. In our case the majority were caused by an integrated kitchen fridge and two of older units one a fridge and the other a freezer.

In my case (at the outset, a decade ago, of putting a weekly meter reading into Spreadsheet ... and being horrified / head-scratching at consumption) I narrowed it down to two American Fridge-Freezers that previous owner had "kindly" left us. Dawned on me that I had never heard the compressor go off ... cleaned out the vents and that fixed that - and made the kitchen quiet ... but even so they went on ebay for a few quid each shortly thereafter

Glad to read that you caught them and moved em on. Musical fridge freezers, a new game! I have never caught onto spread sheets which is probably a good thing or my compulsions would be clanging. I keep a running monthly bar graph and a table in word......
« Last Edit: May 06, 2019, 04:46:02 PM by pantsmachine » Logged

HUGE insulation depth.
5.12 kw PV system with Solar edge.
4.8 kw Pylon tech battery storage.
All Low energy bulbs.
Solar I boost charging 210 ltr OSO system tank.
Balanced & zoned CH wet system & Hive 2
Wood fired thermosiphon cedar hot tub.
Masanobu Fukuoka inspired veg garden & fruit trees
kristen
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« Reply #5 on: May 06, 2019, 05:32:43 PM »

I have never caught onto spread sheets which is probably a good thing or my compulsions would be clanging. I keep a running monthly bar graph and a table in word......

You haven't missed anything ... all mine did was automate the conversion of the "table in word" bit into the "running monthly bar graph" bit Smiley

We also had a 1960's front door bell which had a massive, old fashioned, transformer which was sucking parasitic power.  That took a huge amount of finding ... we got to the "Right, everything off and back on one-by-one to test what the heck that last bit is".

Everything off and meter still going round Smiley

It was Sparky who solved that one at a subsequent, unrelated, visit.
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pantsmachine
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« Reply #6 on: May 06, 2019, 05:57:58 PM »

That's really quite cool. A reversed treasure hunt. I am sure I'll do a 5th round at some point but not much left to play for. Mildly and irrationally envious that there's no doorbell scenario here to find. Smiley
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HUGE insulation depth.
5.12 kw PV system with Solar edge.
4.8 kw Pylon tech battery storage.
All Low energy bulbs.
Solar I boost charging 210 ltr OSO system tank.
Balanced & zoned CH wet system & Hive 2
Wood fired thermosiphon cedar hot tub.
Masanobu Fukuoka inspired veg garden & fruit trees
pantsmachine
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« Reply #7 on: May 08, 2019, 08:47:44 AM »

Bought a Maplin power meter at a charity shop yesterday for a quid, better than the 11 one i have from Amazon by miles! Found my Dewalt battery charger draws 6.5w with no battery in and draws 6.5w firing every 10th second for a second to 37w when a fully charged battery is in, not any more.

 I am well aware that I am now at the end of the process and playing for very little indeed.

 Sept 18 when the batteries and charge controller(which provides the graph) went in I was blissfully unaware of the background draw of the house equipment .  As the first days passed and the WTF realisation hit that i had paid for a battery install that was disappearing overnight. Leaving me the joy of buy from the grid in the AM I was as you can imagine, not best pleased. BUT it did waken me up, if not for the charge controller graph I would still be in the same position today..

This morning i ran the money sum  for genuinely the first time. We are with Ebico to drop the standing charge and we pay 18.232p per kwh bought.

Sept 18 - 35% depletion of battery system in the dead of night is 1.680kwh across 6 hours = 6.720kwh per 24 hour cycle = 1.22 worth of power in background draw.

May 19 - 09% depletion of battery system in the dead of night is 0.432kwh across 6 hours = 1.728kwh per 24 hour cycle = 0.31 worth of power in background draw.

At this time of year the gain is theoretical for me but for somebody without a RE system or a partial one there is food for thought in going to your own charity shop for a 1 power meter i Think?

At the conclusion We have switched off 1,822kwh of background draw in our house per annum. That's 332.18 at the rate we pay or 1 more battery paid for in 3 years to take me up to a 7.2kwh stack. Go The Planet, Go Me, Go You!  extrahappy

« Last Edit: May 08, 2019, 11:43:14 AM by pantsmachine » Logged

HUGE insulation depth.
5.12 kw PV system with Solar edge.
4.8 kw Pylon tech battery storage.
All Low energy bulbs.
Solar I boost charging 210 ltr OSO system tank.
Balanced & zoned CH wet system & Hive 2
Wood fired thermosiphon cedar hot tub.
Masanobu Fukuoka inspired veg garden & fruit trees
pantsmachine
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« Reply #8 on: May 25, 2019, 09:15:38 AM »

New personal record, 7% battery depletion over 6 hours night. I think that's as good as i'll get. 0.336kwh across 6 hours, Ya Dancer! Smiley
Logged

HUGE insulation depth.
5.12 kw PV system with Solar edge.
4.8 kw Pylon tech battery storage.
All Low energy bulbs.
Solar I boost charging 210 ltr OSO system tank.
Balanced & zoned CH wet system & Hive 2
Wood fired thermosiphon cedar hot tub.
Masanobu Fukuoka inspired veg garden & fruit trees
biff
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An unpaid Navitron volunteer who lives off-grid.


« Reply #9 on: May 25, 2019, 11:34:08 AM »

Excellent posts Pantsmachine,
        Informative and very useful,
        Believe it or not, Fleabag sells the meters mucha mucha cheaper,
     I only found that out when I realised that I was once again about to get diddled and stung over the delivery costs.
     Anything over 25 is free (amazon)but when you go for something 14,99 the area is a very dark grey and then there is a little line that says,
    If you have been charged delivery when you think you should not have been charged for delivery,,then blah blah blah  of hard luck..
    So I moved across to fleabag and hey presto, free delivery meant free delivery. and  9.68 = 14.99 +delivery ?
                                                        Biff
     Don,t laugh but if you scroll down the page for power meters you will see that the cheapest one is actually from Ireland but guess what, May not post to Ireland, hysteria H,mmmm
     
« Last Edit: May 25, 2019, 11:39:19 AM by biff » Logged

An unpaid Navitron volunteer,who has been living off-grid,powered by wind and solar,each year better than the last one.
pantsmachine
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« Reply #10 on: May 25, 2019, 02:58:41 PM »

We have a similar experience living a few miles across an imaginary border which places us in Highlands & islands. I just love that catchall phrase for such a distance and diversity. Doesn't top won't deliver to Ireland while bring from Ireland though. That one is outstanding! Always meaning to pop over for a Guiness frenzy...
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HUGE insulation depth.
5.12 kw PV system with Solar edge.
4.8 kw Pylon tech battery storage.
All Low energy bulbs.
Solar I boost charging 210 ltr OSO system tank.
Balanced & zoned CH wet system & Hive 2
Wood fired thermosiphon cedar hot tub.
Masanobu Fukuoka inspired veg garden & fruit trees
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