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Author Topic: Solar Battery, PV and Eco Rate Electrickery  (Read 3046 times)
linesrg
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« Reply #15 on: May 06, 2019, 05:52:53 PM »

Last year I was hopeful of getting a 6p cheap rate Economy 7 deal, when there were a few of them still available. But by the time I got round to having the E7 meter fitted, the cheap rates had gone up to near 10p.

The Octopus deal (5p /kWh for 4 hours) sounds good but there is a 25p per day standing charge which would reduce my savings to almost nothing. And now their website says,

"PLEASE NOTE: We’ve currently paused taking new smart installation appointments as we begin a more controlled SMETS2 rollout over the next few months. If you don't want to wait on one of our standard tariffs in the interim, we'd recommend delaying your switch until we've started taking appointments again."

So missed the boat there.

There is another similar deal with Scottish Power at 4.74p /kWh for 5 hours, seems fixed until Jan 2021, but you need to have an EV registered at your supply address and they seem to want their Standing Charge to be a closely guarded secret.


Mike,

I'm currently on the Scottish Power web site. Having identified I have an Economy 7 meter I can see no sign of a 5 hour 'cheap' period on the 'Green Electric Vehicle' tariff. It's a SC of £0.4603, Day £0.18575 & Night £0.09432, these prices include VAT.

The 'Smartpower Green Electric Vehicle' tariff appears to have a SC of £0.00 and doesn't actually quote any unit rates so I'm very confused.

After a bit more trawling......The Scottish Power site is truly f*****g awful, they have deliberately gone a very long way to avoid telling you what their tariffs actually are. I suspect it must be bordering on being in breach of tradings standards.

I got this from an EV Forum

I called them and on the 4th attempt got through to someone. I was then switched to customer services who gave me the numbers:

Peak 15.281p
Off-peak 4.736p
Standing charge 19.81p


You also need to fit one of their vehicle chargers which is controlled by a mobile app. apparently.

Regards

Richard
« Last Edit: May 06, 2019, 06:13:00 PM by linesrg » Logged

1.28kW on a Lorentz ETATRACK1000 + 1.44kW/ SB3000TL-21 (FIT), 1.28kW/ SB1700 (ROO/FIT). CTC GSi12 heat pump/Ecosol/Flowbox 8010e/Gledhill ASL0085 EHS/3off Navitron 4720AL Solar ET & Immersun T1060/T1070/T1090. 3.375kW/ SMA SB3600TL-21 and a Sunny Island 4.4M-12 c/w 15.2kWh battery and a Renault Zoe.
RIT
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« Reply #16 on: May 06, 2019, 07:37:44 PM »


You also need to fit one of their vehicle chargers which is controlled by a mobile app. apparently.


And that is where the whole thing turns into a scam. The Wallbox's website quotes an install cost of one of its chargers at £1,628 before any grant rebate. Part of the cost is £350 for "Mandatory UK circuit protection DC & Earth Protection", which is basically BS as they also have a £420 installation pack fee, which should be enough to cover the cost of an earthing rod. With luck the new Zappi point should kill this type of fee off when it ships as "in most cases an earth rod is not required during the install". Quotes for the installation of the old Zappi seem to have been around £1,000 before the grant rebate and that would have included earthing.

All in I think any advantage in taking this tariff for it's lower per kWh off-peak rate is created by them overcharging for the EV charger.
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Why bother? - well, there is no planet B
linesrg
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« Reply #17 on: May 06, 2019, 08:41:40 PM »

Good Evening All,

Yet again when I go to the energy comparison web sites, even though I'm now down to seeking a quote based on circa 7000kW year with 42% on Economy 7, those nice people at bulb still come out top................

I have no connection with them but in terms of price and customer service I do wish I'd stayed with them and not transferred to Economy Energy and nor would I still be waiting for the incompetents at Ovo Energy to get my meter registered on the National Database so I can transfer back to bulb  banghead

Regards

Richard
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1.28kW on a Lorentz ETATRACK1000 + 1.44kW/ SB3000TL-21 (FIT), 1.28kW/ SB1700 (ROO/FIT). CTC GSi12 heat pump/Ecosol/Flowbox 8010e/Gledhill ASL0085 EHS/3off Navitron 4720AL Solar ET & Immersun T1060/T1070/T1090. 3.375kW/ SMA SB3600TL-21 and a Sunny Island 4.4M-12 c/w 15.2kWh battery and a Renault Zoe.
NugentS
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« Reply #18 on: May 08, 2019, 05:58:03 AM »

Octopus also have an "agile" tariff which tracks the wholesale price of electricity, marks it up and then charges you that price on a 30 minute basis
They advertise that sometimes prices go <0.00 p/unit. I guess not for long though.

Looking at their charts though and last years price. The average was 13.7921775p/unit (inc VAT) and a Median of 11.74 (inc Vat) with three instances of < £0.00 for a total of 1.5 hours so my gut feeling is that this would not suit me if I am timeshifting / EV charging.

Its interesting looking at the figures how it changes and might suit some people. But I am not convinced.

Sean
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kristen
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« Reply #19 on: May 08, 2019, 07:47:27 AM »

They advertise that sometimes prices go <0.00 p/unit. I guess not for long though.

Not sure about "not for long" ... if someone is paying for curtailment presumably they would prefer to give you the juice at least than the cost of curtailment penalty?

May see that more and more, with ToU metering etc ?

Quote
might suit some people

Static battery people maybe?
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brackwell
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« Reply #20 on: May 08, 2019, 04:25:58 PM »

Curtailment and zero £ leccy are not really that connected.  Curtailment comes from there being to much RE production which cannot be got to the places it could be used usually because there is a bootleneck on the grid. This was common with Scottish RE wind producing more than could be transmitted South to area of demand and was relieved with the completion of the Western link.  Zero prices come about as a product of supply not equaling demand ie to great a supply and there being no generator being short of his quota and therefore no one willing to buy and that can even be pumped hydro if the supply is to great for the supply cables/turbines.

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kristen
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« Reply #21 on: May 08, 2019, 05:09:39 PM »

Curtailment

Sorry, my bad. I guess we need to get beyond infrastructure no longer requiring curtailment, and then into the situation where we have have too much Solar or Wind, and that then has to be dumped onto the market - for those that can consume it.

Or maybe with every car an EV and every meter Smart, by then, there will always be "somewhere" the surplus electrons can be parked?
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RIT
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« Reply #22 on: May 09, 2019, 12:03:21 AM »

Curtailment

Sorry, my bad. I guess we need to get beyond infrastructure no longer requiring curtailment, and then into the situation where we have have too much Solar or Wind, and that then has to be dumped onto the market - for those that can consume it.

Or maybe with every car an EV and every meter Smart, by then, there will always be "somewhere" the surplus electrons can be parked?

We already have that, generators who do not have CfD/FiT agreements drop out of the market as the market price drops below their cost of production. While most large scale wind is current under CfD agreements much of the gas-powered generation is not. You can see this on the gridwatch graphs for today. While wind output has remained fairly constant the gas based generators have a distinct day time/night time output cycle with a small recordable dip in the middle of the day if it is nice and sunny.

By 2030 there is expected to be another 20GW of wind capacity in the pipeline, with the hope that not all of it will be linked to CfD agreements. This could cause us to start talking about zero gas days, but the wind generators without a CfD will shut down if the market price drops below their wear and tear running costs.
« Last Edit: May 09, 2019, 12:05:05 AM by RIT » Logged

2.4kW PV system, output can be seen at  - https://pvoutput.org/list.jsp?userid=49083

Why bother? - well, there is no planet B
kristen
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« Reply #23 on: May 09, 2019, 07:48:50 AM »

wind generators without a CfD will shut down if the market price drops below their wear and tear running costs.

Ah, I hadn't considered that. The current negative-price offers (I'm thinking more about Texas customers, rather than UK ones) are presumably because of generation that can't be switched off.

Rats ... so no negative priced leccy for my batteries Sad

I suppose that will crate opportunity for Generator to do local storage - once storage price makes that worthwhile
« Last Edit: May 09, 2019, 07:50:24 AM by kristen » Logged
jonsamcor
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« Reply #24 on: May 10, 2019, 10:52:00 PM »

I need to underscore my lack of knowledge .... the majority of this thread may as well be written in Hebrew, ....i know nothing.....so a battery install to help balance out my turbine generation is good or bad...??
Amazingly I did get a B in both maths and physics GCSE ......
Does it help ...? Does it f**k
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Rural Co. Down, Proven 6kw Turbine, GSHP, Thermomax Tubes....and Total lack of technical or useful knowledge
RIT
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« Reply #25 on: May 10, 2019, 11:43:15 PM »

I need to underscore my lack of knowledge .... the majority of this thread may as well be written in Hebrew, ....i know nothing.....so a battery install to help balance out my turbine generation is good or bad...??
Amazingly I did get a B in both maths and physics GCSE ......
Does it help ...? Does it f**k

It's good in terms of you being able to reduce the amount of energy you have to pull in from the grid, but it is often bad from a financial point of view as the lifetime cost of the battery solution can be greater than the savings that you see.

The lifetime cost takes into account at least the purchase and installation cost of the battery solution, but it is better to also consider any expected maintenance costs over its life (maybe a replacement charger/inverter), the cost of the money you have spent (lost interest or maybe the possible return from using it for something else like a better car) and the fact that every year battery solutions seem to be getting better/cheaper.

NugentS' calculations seem to be working for him as he expects to completely discharge his batteries at least once a day, so over 12 years he will have stored/discharged at least 48MWh of energy. Most people would not get such a high level of use out of a system.

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2.4kW PV system, output can be seen at  - https://pvoutput.org/list.jsp?userid=49083

Why bother? - well, there is no planet B
jonsamcor
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« Reply #26 on: May 11, 2019, 05:54:32 AM »

Thanks RIT ....
Basically crunch the numbers ......
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NugentS
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« Reply #27 on: May 11, 2019, 08:32:38 AM »

Yeah - I think it works for me - but only just. Batteries are too expensive to cost in for most scenarios I think at the moment.

Sean
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Scruff
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« Reply #28 on: May 11, 2019, 08:51:02 PM »

Hands up anyone who has broken even or made a red cent from this progressive idea?
Factoring lifecycle hardware costs, installation costs, empirical efficiency, and deduct any grid related charges and low usage penalties?

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Scruff
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« Reply #29 on: May 11, 2019, 08:54:53 PM »

Why are batteries better than direct drive?
Economically, electrically or ecologically?
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