navitron
 
Renewable Energy and Sustainability Forum
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
News: Anyone wishing to register as a new member on the forum is strongly recommended to use a "proper" email address. Following continuous spam/hack attempts on the forum, "disposable" email addresses like Gmail, Yahoo and Hotmail tend to be viewed with suspicion, and the application rejected if there is any doubt whatsoever
 
Recent Articles: Navitron Partners With Solax to Help Create A More Sustainable Future | Navitron Calls for Increased Carbon Footprint Reduction In Light of Earth Overshoot Day | A plea from The David School - Issue 18
   Home   Help Search Login Register  
Pages: 1 ... 3 4 5 6 [7] 8 9   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: UK no coal record broken  (Read 8158 times)
brackwell
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 3424


« Reply #90 on: May 11, 2020, 08:09:20 PM »

You never know, coal was losing big money before this kicked off and now the world is awash with cheap gas and i think it failed to win any of the "standby" type  contracts. It looks very bleak for coal but it maybe suits the Nat Grid to have spinning reserve producing little ?
Logged
dan_b
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 5152

SW London


WWW
« Reply #91 on: May 13, 2020, 10:28:17 AM »

Still going - 33 days 10 hours as of Wednesday morning.
Logged

3.06kWp SolarEdge system with a split array:
2.18kWp 10x South facing, plus 4x West facing 880W

Mk1 ImmerSUN DHW diverter
4kW PowerVault Battery

Tesla Model 3 Long Range
dan_b
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 5152

SW London


WWW
« Reply #92 on: May 19, 2020, 11:03:30 AM »

39 days of no coal and counting.
Logged

3.06kWp SolarEdge system with a split array:
2.18kWp 10x South facing, plus 4x West facing 880W

Mk1 ImmerSUN DHW diverter
4kW PowerVault Battery

Tesla Model 3 Long Range
dimengineer
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 2402


« Reply #93 on: May 19, 2020, 03:11:32 PM »

You never know, coal was losing big money before this kicked off and now the world is awash with cheap gas and i think it failed to win any of the "standby" type  contracts. It looks very bleak for coal but it maybe suits the Nat Grid to have spinning reserve producing little ?

Well, I'd agree with that. I'm of a cautious bent, and you never know what might happen. So although I know coal is dirty and we "should" be getting away from the stuff, the fact we still have large reserves of it puts me into the situation where I still think it would be useful to keep a handful of GW of coal powered stations, and the coal infrastructure because.... well... you never know.

I wouldn't weep if it all went, tomorrow, but would it be wise, minister.?.....

Logged

21 tube Kloben Panel/250L Megaflow, 1.68kWp Solar PV - 7 x 240W Sanyo Panels. Morso Squirrel WBS
AndrewE
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 386


« Reply #94 on: May 19, 2020, 06:51:53 PM »

You never know, coal was losing big money before this kicked off and now the world is awash with cheap gas and i think it failed to win any of the "standby" type  contracts. It looks very bleak for coal but it maybe suits the Nat Grid to have spinning reserve producing little ?

Well, I'd agree with that. I'm of a cautious bent, and you never know what might happen. So although I know coal is dirty and we "should" be getting away from the stuff, the fact we still have large reserves of it puts me into the situation where I still think it would be useful to keep a handful of GW of coal powered stations, and the coal infrastructure because.... well... you never know.

I wouldn't weep if it all went, tomorrow, but would it be wise, minister.?.....
The problem is that you either keep a coal mine working (and burn its output) or you don't.   There is no half-way: you dig, ventilate, maintain roadways, train apprentices, maintain all the plant and machinery and safety equipment (and the rescue team) or you just shut it.
Even the museum near Dewsbury managed to kill someone when they tried to alter or extend one of their tunnels.


[/quote]
Logged
desperate
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 3558


Backache stuff!!


WWW
« Reply #95 on: May 19, 2020, 07:07:21 PM »

You never know, coal was losing big money before this kicked off and now the world is awash with cheap gas and i think it failed to win any of the "standby" type  contracts. It looks very bleak for coal but it maybe suits the Nat Grid to have spinning reserve producing little ?

Well, I'd agree with that. I'm of a cautious bent, and you never know what might happen. So although I know coal is dirty and we "should" be getting away from the stuff, the fact we still have large reserves of it puts me into the situation where I still think it would be useful to keep a handful of GW of coal powered stations, and the coal infrastructure because.... well... you never know.

I wouldn't weep if it all went, tomorrow, but would it be wise, minister.?.....
The problem is that you either keep a coal mine working (and burn its output) or you don't.   There is no half-way: you dig, ventilate, maintain roadways, train apprentices, maintain all the plant and machinery and safety equipment (and the rescue team) or you just shut it.
Even the museum near Dewsbury managed to kill someone when they tried to alter or extend one of their tunnels.


[/quote]

Wouldn't there be some justifiction for keeping a bit of coal production as a feedstock for the chemical industry, along with supplying some "just in case" storage and maybe preserved railways and what not??

Desp
Logged

www.jandhbuilders.co.uk

still a crazy old duffer!
dimengineer
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 2402


« Reply #96 on: May 19, 2020, 08:03:00 PM »

You never know, coal was losing big money before this kicked off and now the world is awash with cheap gas and i think it failed to win any of the "standby" type  contracts. It looks very bleak for coal but it maybe suits the Nat Grid to have spinning reserve producing little ?

Well, I'd agree with that. I'm of a cautious bent, and you never know what might happen. So although I know coal is dirty and we "should" be getting away from the stuff, the fact we still have large reserves of it puts me into the situation where I still think it would be useful to keep a handful of GW of coal powered stations, and the coal infrastructure because.... well... you never know.

I wouldn't weep if it all went, tomorrow, but would it be wise, minister.?.....
The problem is that you either keep a coal mine working (and burn its output) or you don't.   There is no half-way: you dig, ventilate, maintain roadways, train apprentices, maintain all the plant and machinery and safety equipment (and the rescue team) or you just shut it.
Even the museum near Dewsbury managed to kill someone when they tried to alter or extend one of their tunnels.


[/quote]
Perhaps a care and maintenance basis? Yes I can see a lot of problems - like where do you get the actual miners when you want to reopen. But, I'm still a wee bit hesitant about burning our bridges.
Only a thought really, to ponder on.
Logged

21 tube Kloben Panel/250L Megaflow, 1.68kWp Solar PV - 7 x 240W Sanyo Panels. Morso Squirrel WBS
JohnS
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 2130


« Reply #97 on: May 19, 2020, 09:02:14 PM »

Do we still have any open cast mines? Might be cheaper to maintain?  Or how would imported coal compare in cost?
« Last Edit: May 19, 2020, 09:18:49 PM by JohnS » Logged

2.1kWp solar PV  PHEV West London
Philip R
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1779

South Cheshire


« Reply #98 on: May 19, 2020, 10:02:21 PM »

I do not regard gas as a reliable source of energy for the UK as it comes via pipelines or tankers from distant lands. Its supply can be cut off at the command of some maniacal dictator, and the UK has become impotent as a result a lack of longterm strategic planning by our politicians, most of whom lack a STEM type qualification or indeed profession.
A large part of the UKs gas infrastructure runs under the North Sea, along with a large capacity of offshore wind turbines. None of it can be easily protected from an act of conventional force aggression from possible enemies of the UK, as we have degraded our security.
 
I would keep the remaining coal plants until the UK is no longer reliant on importing the bulk of it energy supply in the form of gas and oil, and maintain a stock of coal for long cold winter, even if we have to import some of it from Russia.
Logged
M
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 5413



« Reply #99 on: May 20, 2020, 06:47:00 AM »

If we are going to accept a 'necessary evil', and I get the argument, it's a good one, then wouldn't bio-mass and a stock of bio-mass be a less 'evil' solution than coal.

Of course I'm assuming Trump loses the election and the US is considered a safe source of fuel. If he wins, then I wouldn't be surprised if he declares war on the UK, or tries to buy us with Greenland thrown in.  wackoold
Logged

Just call me Mart.     Cardiff: 5.58kWp PV - (3.58kWp SE3500 + 2kWp SE2200 WNW)
Philip R
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1779

South Cheshire


« Reply #100 on: May 20, 2020, 11:09:05 AM »

Biomass too, the only problem here is the capital cost of modifying coal plant and then accepting it has to be run over a fair period to get the payback.
I did not mention it and I should have done. Coal storage is a bit problematic, it oxidises and can catch fire. The same can apply to woodpellets,but nore so the dust, hence the big onion storage domes which I guess are inerted with nitrogen.
When I mentioned the maniacal dictator, I was thinking of our geographical East. However, your comments about the US leader. Um yes, He is one too. 
Logged
M
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 5413



« Reply #101 on: May 20, 2020, 11:14:57 AM »

Biomass too, the only problem here is the capital cost of modifying coal plant and then accepting it has to be run over a fair period to get the payback.
I did not mention it and I should have done. Coal storage is a bit problematic, it oxidises and can catch fire. The same can apply to woodpellets,but nore so the dust, hence the big onion storage domes which I guess are inerted with nitrogen.
When I mentioned the maniacal dictator, I was thinking of our geographical East. However, your comments about the US leader. Um yes, He is one too. 

I got your point completely, but I thought if I suggested a 'safe and reliable' source of bio-mass from N. America, it might attract some derision at the moment, and I'd be unable to disagree.

Basically, if we accept that some CO2 emissions are acceptable for energy security, then short term CO2 would seem to beat FF CO2. But it's all just an interesting ponder, so who knows. And if Ecotricity could get support for their green gas mills with projections to meet 97% of future GCH needs, then intermittent leccy support would be a doddle, and that would shift the short term CO2 down from 20-50yrs to 1yr (or less).

God I'm loving this energy revolution, so, so much potential and possible solutions.  extrahappy
Logged

Just call me Mart.     Cardiff: 5.58kWp PV - (3.58kWp SE3500 + 2kWp SE2200 WNW)
Countrypaul
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1818


« Reply #102 on: May 20, 2020, 11:42:42 AM »

Can biomass be stockpiled effectively, or does it start to "compost"?  Wood if he right type, or if stored dry can be kept easily, but once we are down to wood pellets stored in the open would these still be useable, or would we need a large number of dry storage structures for these?

No idea wha the answer is, but if storing more moe than a short while itmight be an extra consideration.
Logged
dan_b
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 5152

SW London


WWW
« Reply #103 on: May 20, 2020, 11:57:35 AM »

Surely biomass can be stored by leaving them as trees, in the same way coal can be stored by leaving it in the ground?!  stir

Not sure I was expecting a thread on Navitron about the end of coal generation to take such a dramatic swerve and start advocating for maintaining coal burning!
Logged

3.06kWp SolarEdge system with a split array:
2.18kWp 10x South facing, plus 4x West facing 880W

Mk1 ImmerSUN DHW diverter
4kW PowerVault Battery

Tesla Model 3 Long Range
Philip R
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1779

South Cheshire


« Reply #104 on: May 20, 2020, 12:06:20 PM »

Woodpellets have to be kept dry. If they get damp, they swell and start to degrade. Hence Drax PS onion domes (silos) and closed rail transport wagons.


My concern about the gas mills is based upon observations I have made in my locality.

Up the top of my road lies a field which has had maize grown on it every year for at least 18 years, no crop rotation. Some of it is used for cattle feed and some I have seen taken to a bioenergy plant 12 miles away in a diesel powerred tractor trailor . The electricity produced is used to part power the large refriderated warehouse over the road. The waste heat is dissipated in coolers and not used for absorbtion chilling in said facility. To me that is a poor use of the maize.
Logged
Pages: 1 ... 3 4 5 6 [7] 8 9   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.20 | SMF © 2013, Simple Machines
SMFAds for Free Forums
Simple Audio Video Embedder
Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!