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Author Topic: selling your PV to energy firms.  (Read 1054 times)
RIT
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« Reply #15 on: June 10, 2019, 04:32:02 PM »

If an energy supplier purchases domestic solar export to sell to their other customers, do they still have to pay all the 'green' levies, transmission costs etc?

Unless they are exempted from these, as they should be, I cannot see them paying a sensible amount.

If they are exempted, then suppliers should be falling over backwards to compete for exported electricity.

The simple answer is yes all the loaded costs still have to be paid.

The Ofgem breakdown of electricity bills put the cost of energy at just 33% of the total cost and much of that is from the cost of energy being purchased/sold at peak times and during the winter - so ad-hoc PV generation has a value well below 33% of the bill.

       https://www.ofgem.gov.uk/data-portal/breakdown-electricity-bill

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2.4kW PV system, output can be seen at  - https://pvoutput.org/list.jsp?userid=49083

Why bother? - well, there is no planet B
brackwell
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« Reply #16 on: June 10, 2019, 04:42:35 PM »

I thought industrial PV can now be installed subsidy free although not at domestic level so i can imagine the gov thinking they do not need to subsidise anymore.

The other thing is why does PV in Aus cost about 50% what it does in the UK -fingers in pies?
« Last Edit: June 10, 2019, 04:44:44 PM by brackwell » Logged
Moxi
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« Reply #17 on: June 10, 2019, 04:44:50 PM »

Given that the EPR in Finland (the first to start construction in 2005) and its equivalent French station (2007) are not likely to start power loading until January 2020 I would say there is still a good chance that HC will miss its contractual power on date and hopefully allow us to dodge an expensive error by the politicians.

Scarily the Chinese have built and brought on load two units (almost) in the same amount of time - hope this is just excellent Chinese engineering and programme management or we will all be paying a price sometime in the future  sh*tfan Taishan (2009) went on grid June 2018.

Give me renewables over nuclear any day
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RIT
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« Reply #18 on: June 10, 2019, 04:51:20 PM »

I thought industrial PV can now be installed subsidy free although not at domestic level so i can imagine the gov thinking they do not need to subsidise anymore.

Yes, reports indicate that large scale installations with a high percentage of self-consumption are already viable. This is a report from last year

      https://theenergyst.com/15mw-unsubsidised-solar-park-planned-buckinghamshire-battery-storage-follow/

Due to its size, they were able to sign what is known as a Power purchase agreement (PPA) with a third party for their excess generation and the article states that they expect an

Quote
internal rate of return greater than 7 per cent
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2.4kW PV system, output can be seen at  - https://pvoutput.org/list.jsp?userid=49083

Why bother? - well, there is no planet B
brackwell
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« Reply #19 on: June 10, 2019, 05:33:04 PM »

I like this idea where costs and remuneration are linked to the meter.  https://www.greentechmedia.com/articles/read/justin-hawaii#gs.i3kcei   
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M
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« Reply #20 on: June 11, 2019, 07:59:56 AM »

I thought industrial PV can now be installed subsidy free although not at domestic level so i can imagine the gov thinking they do not need to subsidise anymore.

The other thing is why does PV in Aus cost about 50% what it does in the UK -fingers in pies?

Because Australia supports PV installs, it didn't pull the rug out from underneath them when costs fell, hence why 7kWp install (possibly the new average*) costs about £4k.

*The first million households averaged 2.4kWp, the second million averaged 5.6kWp.

Table 1: Average out-of-pocket costs by city & system size (May 2019)

Quote
In particular, the prices below encompass:

- Supply & installation of solar panels
- Supply & installation of a string inverter, microinverters and/or power optimisers
- Supply & installation of all requisite cabling, safety & mounting equipment
- The federal ‘discount’/incentive available for all accredited small-scale solar installations in Australia
- GST

Just in case anyone suggests Aus gets more sun, hence why they support PV - that argument is actually backwards, since more gen, means lower cost of generation, means less support is needed.

So long as some RE still gets support, nuclear gets another bite of the pie, and FF's are subsidised via various means (tax breaks, pollution (health) & pollution (AGW)), and the UK remains a net CO2 emitter, I fail to see why PV and on-shore wind should not continue to receive support. Typically a desired outcome is supported in order to accelerate its rollout/adoption at all times v's normal economic deployment.
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Just call me Mart.     Cardiff: 5.58kWp PV - (3.58kWp SE3500 + 2kWp SE2200 WNW)
DonL
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« Reply #21 on: June 11, 2019, 04:32:43 PM »

I already export my excess PV via a half-hourly meter and the rate for this financial year is £55/MWh.
Don
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Schuco solar hot water - 3300kWh/annum, 16 BP 4175N PV panels - 2.8kWp, log burner and back boiler and 18 Ying Li 235 PV panels - 4.2kWp, 42kW ground mount PV, 9kW Panasonic ASHP
dan_b
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WWW
« Reply #22 on: June 11, 2019, 04:37:37 PM »

Octopus have just launched a Smart Meter Export Tariff for people with domestic generation

https://octopus.energy/outgoing/

Guess it would be most useful for people who are installing in the post-FiTs world, or if you've got a big enough and efficient-enough battery to make genuine use of being able to discharge and export to the grid at the most financially valuable times of the day?

If anyone wants to switch to Octopus here's my referral code https://share.octopus.energy/teal-leaf-367
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3.06kWp SolarEdge system with a split array:
2.18kWp 10x South facing, plus 4x West facing 880W

Mk1 ImmerSUN DHW diverter
4kW PowerVault Battery
Philip R
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« Reply #23 on: June 11, 2019, 04:59:48 PM »

Everything historically built in the public sector was subsidised. Be it power stations, north sea oil or new waterworks. It benefitted the population at large.There were no renewables back then so their development did not get subsidised.

So you have edf and nuclear , previously uk state owned. You also have German and Danish owned wind taking any profit overseas.
The reason it is this way is because the stupid British sold their public assets to overseas companies for 2 lousy pieces of silver, and now we are being forever screwed over.

Solar insolation is generally higher in oz than in uk. Hence greater panel utilisation and cheaper costs.

Regarding Chinese fast construction, How about, no red tape, government backing to large capital projects, poorer health and safety standards, loads of cheap manpower, signing off or ignoring QA documentation. I.e .a complete opposite to situation in uk.
Philip R
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Philip R
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« Reply #24 on: June 11, 2019, 05:02:03 PM »

Wrong thread, sorry.
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nowty
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« Reply #25 on: June 11, 2019, 05:21:48 PM »

Octopus have just launched a Smart Meter Export Tariff for people with domestic generation

https://octopus.energy/outgoing/

Just seen this on their FAQ for this new tariff.

Is there a limit to the amount of electricity I can export?

Answer - There’s no limit to the export rate set on our tariff, or on your smart meter, and the total electricity you export per month isn’t limited.
However, your home supply system won’t be able to handle exporting energy beyond a certain point. Your solar panel installer will have ensured their maximum output will be within the limit of the breaker in your home (usually between 40 and 100 amps).


So you can export a max of "usually between 40 and 100 amps" ? hysteria, the DNO's gonna love that ! sh*tfan


Dont ya just love these energy suppliers !



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11kW+ of PV installed and 50+ MWh generated.
Usable battery storage of 45+ kWh.
Hot Water storage of 15+ kWh.
Heat storage of 15+ kWh.
6kW Ground Source Heatpump.
230,000+ litres of water harvested from underground river.
Home grown Fruit and Veg.
GeoffM
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« Reply #26 on: June 11, 2019, 07:31:29 PM »

...and with Octopus if you are signed up for FITs you have to opt out of the Deemed Payment to receive their payment. So not likely to be if much interest I'd have thought, unless you are able to export considerably more than half of your output.
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nowty
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« Reply #27 on: June 11, 2019, 08:12:25 PM »

For me its possibly worth it to opt out as I only get the FITs export element on 4kW of my installed PV out of 11kW.

So with deemed export, that's 3.82p on circa 2000 units = approx £75.

If I exported at peak rate time for circa 10p I would only need to export 750 units or 1,500 at a standard 5p rate out of the 10,000 units I generate to make the same amount as deemed export.

However I use practically ALL of my generation apart from July and August and going back to gas for heating in leu of export would be a tad environmentally dysfunctional. fight
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11kW+ of PV installed and 50+ MWh generated.
Usable battery storage of 45+ kWh.
Hot Water storage of 15+ kWh.
Heat storage of 15+ kWh.
6kW Ground Source Heatpump.
230,000+ litres of water harvested from underground river.
Home grown Fruit and Veg.
kristen
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« Reply #28 on: June 12, 2019, 06:41:11 PM »

Trying to think of a fair price ... how about 8.95p/kWh

How about 10% [pick a reasonable markup percentage] less than whatever Off Peak rate they offer me?
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