navitron
 
Renewable Energy and Sustainability Forum
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
News: Anyone wishing to register as a new member on the forum is strongly recommended to use a "proper" email address - following recent spam/hack attempts on the forum, all security is set to "high", and "disposable" email addresses like Gmail, Yahoo and Hotmail tend to be viewed with suspicion, and the application rejected if there is any doubt whatsoever
 
Recent Articles: Navitron Partners With Solax to Help Create A More Sustainable Future | Navitron Calls for Increased Carbon Footprint Reduction In Light of Earth Overshoot Day | A plea from The David School - Issue 18
   Home   Help Search Login Register  
Pages: [1] 2   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: TopGear on the updated Renault Zoe - "iPace range for supermini price"  (Read 3300 times)
dan_b
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 4226


WWW
« on: August 02, 2019, 11:30:37 AM »

https://www.topgear.com/car-news/electric/new-renault-zoe-ev-supermini-i-pace-range

Surprisingly positive!
Logged

3.06kWp SolarEdge system with a split array:
2.18kWp 10x South facing, plus 4x West facing 880W

Mk1 ImmerSUN DHW diverter
4kW PowerVault Battery

Tesla Model 3 Long Range
Barrie
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 150


« Reply #1 on: August 02, 2019, 11:50:40 AM »

Ah but does the anticipated £21k include the battery?

The original Zoe had a battery that was leased at a cost of £75 per month, so at more than double the capacity there could be quite a tidy charge just for alleviating a bit of range anxiety.

There must be many second cars around that never travel more than 20 miles from home for whom the original Leaf and the new Honda e is ideal. We certainly have no intention of paying for a battery that we don't need.
Logged

Milton Keynes Vauxhall Insignia EcoTech
azps
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 714



WWW
« Reply #2 on: August 02, 2019, 01:01:45 PM »

There must be many second cars around that never travel more than 20 miles from home for whom the original Leaf and the new Honda e is ideal.

A large proportion of cars rarely go beyond 50 miles. So these cars would be great first cars, never mind second cars. The cost-minimising strategy for many households is to have one of these as first car, and just hire a long-range car for the occasional trips when needed.
Logged

dan_b
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 4226


WWW
« Reply #3 on: August 02, 2019, 01:12:10 PM »

I was under the impression that Renault wasn't doing battery lease on the new Zoe anymore.
Logged

3.06kWp SolarEdge system with a split array:
2.18kWp 10x South facing, plus 4x West facing 880W

Mk1 ImmerSUN DHW diverter
4kW PowerVault Battery

Tesla Model 3 Long Range
oliver90owner
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 2058


« Reply #4 on: August 02, 2019, 02:38:52 PM »

A small battery (with a small range) is OK for those that don't intend keeping it long.  Discharging to low state of charge, recharging at high rate - and to close to 100% - is not the best recipe for battery longevity. 

I reckon the kona and nero 64kWh versions, while more expensive, have the battery which will be least stressed - good for those that do not change their cars ‘every time the lease is up’ (and leaving second owners to pick up the tired battery with shortened life-span).

That is my take on it.  Buy a vehicle that covers most of your motoring while using only about 60% of the available battery capacity and charge at home on cheap-rate leccy.
Logged
RIT
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 2062


« Reply #5 on: August 02, 2019, 05:54:49 PM »

I was under the impression that Renault wasn't doing battery lease on the new Zoe anymore.

Sadly not, Renault's build a car website seems to have broken web links to the details, but elsewhere they have working links to the following page

    https://www.renault.co.uk/renault-finance/battery-hire.html

With a charge of about 8p per mile for the current battery options (22 and 40 kWh), the running cost of the battery is not much better than an ICE car and could wipe out the book value of the car in the future as battery costs start to drop as any future purchaser will have to agree to this cost per mile rate when they buy the car. The result is that Renault is selling a long term income source (for them) while the purchaser covers all the long term technology risk costs. The only time that the current lease seems to make sense is the unlimited option as that is a fixed yearly cost of £1330pa regardless of mileage if you have a long daily commute.
Logged

2.4kW PV system, output can be seen at  - https://pvoutput.org/list.jsp?userid=49083

Why bother? - well, there is no planet B
Justme
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 3530


« Reply #6 on: August 02, 2019, 06:40:20 PM »




With a charge of about 8p per mile for the current battery


Thats me out then.

My car can get 10p per mile on trips.
Logged

Navitron solar thermal system
30 x 58mm panel 259L TS
1200watts solar 120vdc
FX80 Solar controller
Victron 12v 3000w 120a
6kva genny
6 x 2v cells 1550amp/h 5C
24 x 2v cells 700amp/h 5C
Total bank 4350 amp/h 5C
RIT
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 2062


« Reply #7 on: August 02, 2019, 08:35:19 PM »




With a charge of about 8p per mile for the current battery


Thats me out then.

My car can get 10p per mile on trips.

That's 8p, plus the cost of electricity per mile - so you can be looking at 11-12p per mile in a Zoe.
Logged

2.4kW PV system, output can be seen at  - https://pvoutput.org/list.jsp?userid=49083

Why bother? - well, there is no planet B
marshman
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 948


WWW
« Reply #8 on: August 02, 2019, 09:41:26 PM »

I looked at the Renault website and almost started to think it would suit our needs but if you are saying it costs around 8p per mile + electric cost then I will stick to my "worthless" Peugeot 106 runabout. It may cost in excise duty (£150 per year) but insurance is as cheap as chips (£90 per year) and it does an average of 55 MPG all day long, so around 11p per mile. (servicing and spares are negligible cost as I do all my own maintenance).  When put against well over £20k purchase cost it is a no brainer. For long trips & load lugging  I'll stick with my devil diesel Passat which also does between 55 and 60 MPG and will do the best part of 800 miles on a tank full..

Having said that the Zoe is getting close to making me look seriously at switching to electric and hiring a car for the occasional long trip, it ticks a lot of my boxes. 'lectric cars are getting there.

Roger
Logged

3.15kWpk (15xSharp ND210)/SB3000. & 3.675kWpk (15 x Suntech 245WD)/SB4000TL, 10kW GSHP driving Wirsbo underfloor heating from 1200m ground loops. 10' x 7' solar wall (experimental). Clearview 650 Wood Burning Stove. MHRV - diy retrofit. Triple glazing.
RIT
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 2062


« Reply #9 on: August 02, 2019, 10:06:47 PM »

Marshman, I keep doing the same calculation as my MGB is not going to last forever (but it's fun while it keeps going). The new ICE car I compare EVs against is the Suzuki Ignis which is less than £16,000 for a supermini/micro SUV all in, it's no wonder car but does around 50mpg. So a wonderful EV such as a Kona (once in stock again) for £39,000 or a general ICE for about 40% of the amount.

EVs also suffer a lot from small print issues - the Renault size currently has this for the Zoe

Quote
Renault estimates average real world driving figures for this vehicle as 186 miles in summer and 124 miles in winter


A few more years of innovation for EVs and most likely a few more tax changes for ICEs and it will become a simple choice, but not yet.
Logged

2.4kW PV system, output can be seen at  - https://pvoutput.org/list.jsp?userid=49083

Why bother? - well, there is no planet B
GarethC
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 275


« Reply #10 on: August 04, 2019, 12:21:25 PM »

Think the kona is £33k (post incentive, so £36.5 before). Also, pretty sure those range stats are for the 40kwh Zoe. Bit disappointed they didn't bump up charging rate for zoe higher than 50 kW. I think 100kW+ chargers will become more common, and being able to add a full charge in not much more than a half hour would be handy.
Logged
RIT
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 2062


« Reply #11 on: August 04, 2019, 01:10:20 PM »

Think the kona is £33k (post incentive, so £36.5 before). Also, pretty sure those range stats are for the 40kwh Zoe. Bit disappointed they didn't bump up charging rate for zoe higher than 50 kW. I think 100kW+ chargers will become more common, and being able to add a full charge in not much more than a half hour would be handy.

The Kona Electric Premium SE list is £38,645 and another £565 if you want any other colour than the single 'free' colour. As I'm not looking to purchase today (rather hard with a Kona as it is sold out until sometime next year) I don't plan around the value of the incentive.

The charge rate is somewhat dependent on the size and of design of the battery, so large high voltage battery packs with lots of active cooling can accept higher charging rates. The issue is that the charging rate of the charger is a maximum and for both CCS 1.0 and CHAdeMo seems to be the max voltage x max current = the quoted rating. So to charge from a 100kW CHAdeMo at the maximum quoted rate of 200A the car's battery pack has to be requesting a 500V supply. The latest Nissan LEAF (62kW battery model) is reported to have a battery pack that operates in the range of 300V to 400V, so when near empty can only draw a maximum of 60kW (300Vx200A) rising to 80kW (400Vx200A) when nearly fully charged, which in turn will be greatly lowered to reduce the stress on the nearly full battery. So while Nissan talks about a 100kW charger interface the car can not charge at 100kW, instead their DC Fast figure of 80% from empty in 45 mins (from a 100kW charger) indicates a top charge rate of 66kW per hour.
Logged

2.4kW PV system, output can be seen at  - https://pvoutput.org/list.jsp?userid=49083

Why bother? - well, there is no planet B
DonL
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 570


« Reply #12 on: August 04, 2019, 03:49:51 PM »

Before I took the plunge, 18 months ago, I had a quick look at comparative costs between the Honda Jazz, Renaut Zoe and Nissan Leaf. At that time, depreciating fully over 10 years and considering fuel costs, the overall running cost of the electric cars were comparable to the ICE with an annual mileage of 8000miles and moved significantly in favour of the electric car at higher mileages (although battery life might then become a factor). Obviously, if you planned to change the car after three years the result would be different. However it seemed that the electric car could compete on running costs and with a big environmental advantage.

I bought the Leaf and paid a bit more to get a higher Spec. I haven't regretted  it for even a moment. One factor hard to include on a spreadsheet is the driving experience.

I'll link the spreadsheet but don't forget it is 18 months old and based on fuel prices at the time and my assumptions.

Also, I found it quite hard to get the proper price on the Zoe. They tended to make some items which you needed options - such as a battery! So the headline price often quoted is based on a leased battery which is a very poor deal in my view and misses out a 13Amp charging lead.

Don

* Car Spreadsheet.xls (20 KB - downloaded 23 times.)
Logged

Schuco solar hot water - 3300kWh/annum, 16 BP 4175N PV panels - 2.8kWp, log burner and back boiler and 18 Ying Li 235 PV panels - 4.2kWp, 42kW ground mount PV, 9kW Panasonic ASHP, 40kWh Nissan Leaf
Mike McMillan
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 226


« Reply #13 on: August 05, 2019, 07:03:49 AM »

We've had our Zoe for over two years now. The car cost £13,000, which was the 40 kw battery with some extra's. The battery lease is £69 a month, which gives us 6000 miles a year.(It appears that they are not charging if you run over the 6000 miles). The lease guarantees the battery for life and gives you free rescue (even if you run out of power) and replacement car. We have free charging at Asda, and from our solar panels in the summer. The range is over 200 miles in the summer and around 175 in winter (dependant on temperature. It's an absolute dream to drive.. No brainer for us.

Mike

IOW
Logged

Off grid; 4KWH install charging Rolls 24v 1000 A.H. batteries with 3 Tristar controllers. 3KW Victron Inverter with FIT meter on output. Relay driver automatically opens circuits as battery charges. 6 x 15 experimental solar collectors feeding 250 L. tank.  Angus wood gasification boiler.
dan_b
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 4226


WWW
« Reply #14 on: August 05, 2019, 09:54:33 AM »

My cousin just bought a 2nd hand 1st Gen Zoe - he hasn't mentioned paying for a battery lease - but he has mentioned how much he loves the car!
Logged

3.06kWp SolarEdge system with a split array:
2.18kWp 10x South facing, plus 4x West facing 880W

Mk1 ImmerSUN DHW diverter
4kW PowerVault Battery

Tesla Model 3 Long Range
Pages: [1] 2   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.20 | SMF © 2013, Simple Machines
SMFAds for Free Forums
Simple Audio Video Embedder
Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!