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Author Topic: Small turbines in residential areas  (Read 7176 times)
pantsmachine
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« on: August 11, 2019, 09:35:01 AM »

Hi all, my mind keeps returning to the idea of a small wind turbine to augment the solar. Liked the look of the 15kw windmill version. Would use to keep batteries topped up and solar I boost running. Anyone tried putting one in a residential area?
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« Reply #1 on: August 11, 2019, 10:12:29 AM »

The immediate answer to wind in urban residential areas is “chocolate teapot”.
So much turbulent air that you’ll never get proper air flow to the turbine if it’s anywhere near your house, and the noise and vibration if it’s mounted to your house will drive you and your neighbours mad.
Unless you have a big garden and are able to mount a small turbine atop a reasonably tall tower away from any other buildings, it’s really a futile exercise. 


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oliver90owner
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« Reply #2 on: August 11, 2019, 10:15:41 AM »

Apart from planning permission, possible noise nuisance, strobing, etc there are other issues.

Wind speed and variability in a residential area might be a problem, along with turbulence.

Insurance would be rather expensive, dependent on distances from neighbours’ properties or of rights of way.  Towers collapsing must be able to fall safely  within the confines of the property, I would think.  Losing one or more impellor blades could be lethal - they can remain airborne for some considerable distance - think here spinning seeds being dispersed from ash trees, for instance.

Overall, not a clever idea I would suggest.  But your idea of ‘residential’ may differ from mine.

Edited to add that a 15kW machine is not a small machine,  in my idea of a residential area.
« Last Edit: August 11, 2019, 10:19:04 AM by oliver90owner » Logged
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« Reply #3 on: August 11, 2019, 11:00:31 AM »

Edited to add that a 15kW machine is not a small machine

Perhaps its one of 'those' type mentioned on here before. stir (Physically small but have fantastically, physically impossible, high output).  Huh
« Last Edit: August 11, 2019, 05:21:32 PM by Tinbum » Logged

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pantsmachine
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« Reply #4 on: August 11, 2019, 11:52:33 AM »

LOL,
apologies 1.5kw. I had posted the original on my phone. We live in a bungalow and I had thought to put it up at the same height as the tv ariel so approx. 10 mtrs off the ground. We have strong winds and we are relatively open in area. I had hoped that metalastic mountings and build quality of turbine itself would isolate any hum/vibration. I'll have a chat with my planning dept and see how they are. Anymore input from you guys on the 1.5kw level is massively appreciated. Smiley

https://residential-wind-turbines.com/product/automaxx-windmill-1500w-24v-60a-wind-turbine-generator-kit-mppt-charge-controller-included-automatic-and-manual-braking-system-amp-meter-diy-installation-off-grid-living-barn-homestead-or-camper/

In saying that, it gets a bit of a slating in Amazon reviews.
« Last Edit: August 11, 2019, 12:10:43 PM by pantsmachine » Logged

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« Reply #5 on: August 11, 2019, 01:01:21 PM »

I too have a longing for WT but after long consideration and much reading on this forum I've concluded it's only really useful  if your off grid and live in a rural area with appropriate geography - don't underestimate the amount of effort that's required to keep a WT up and running. 

I've replaced that desire with another, namely a secondary unsubsidised self installed SolarPV/Battery install allied with an hybrid ASHP - still working on that one!


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« Reply #6 on: August 11, 2019, 01:22:43 PM »

I am sure there is a magic point in wattage and build quality where I can assist the solar. Had looked at the horizontals as well even with their inherent design longevity issues. I can certainly recommend the solar/battery array to you as a wonderful combo. I'd love to be able to splice in wind input into the goodwe charge controller for home/batteries/iboost/export. 1st step should be a wee wind monitoring device in spot I plan for to see if its even viable?
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« Reply #7 on: August 11, 2019, 02:40:22 PM »

We had a 1.5 kW turbine (8m guyed tower)whilst living in France when the wind blew from the W/SW open fields it produced really well. From the N the direction of the house 50m away it produced diddly squat. Unless you have an enormous garden with no trees and are prepared to accept next to nothing production from that direction   chocolateteapot

For us worthwhile, it depends what you are looking at, we had no immediate neighbours so safety was not an issue.

Good luck.
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« Reply #8 on: August 11, 2019, 03:35:18 PM »


.....
In saying that, it gets a bit of a slating in Amazon reviews.

Not really surprising!  Have you checked the maths to see if that output is possible at that wind speed?

Try it and see.
« Last Edit: August 11, 2019, 03:38:59 PM by oliver90owner » Logged
pantsmachine
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« Reply #9 on: August 11, 2019, 04:40:02 PM »

Hi guys, I would go for a vawt for less noise, smaller footprint, less output stacked up against less reliability. I am now at daft question stage, please don't mock.
If planning knocked back any discussion whatsoever I could put up a small vawt at the bottom of the garden and call it a temp structure. Here's the daft bit. If I buy a 24v dc 600watt purely as an example can I wire it into my ring main through the closest point (an outside workshop) and a transformer to 244v ac for example so it is pushing a small amount of power into my ring main whenever it spins?
« Last Edit: November 22, 2019, 11:21:48 AM by pantsmachine » Logged

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« Reply #10 on: August 11, 2019, 04:43:41 PM »

Ecogeorge has got one in his housing estate, thread below, but he even admits "it produces virtually nothing and only a smidgen when its windy".

https://www.navitron.org.uk/forum/index.php/topic,30407.0.html

Wind just does not scale downwards like solar does for residential generation. A solar panel will generate the same in a residential area or in a solar farm, but for wind you need a specific windy location, free of turbulence and the biggest turbine you can find.
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« Reply #11 on: August 11, 2019, 06:40:18 PM »

If planning knocked back any discussion whatsoever I could put up a small hawt at the bottom of the garden and call it a temp structure. Here's the daft bit. If I buy a 24v dc 600watt purely as an example can I wire it into my ring main through the closest point (an outside workshop) and a transformer to 244v ac for example so it is pushing a small amount of power into my ring main whenever it spins?

NO.  You will need a grid tied inverter exactly as you do for solar PV. Mastervolt used to do a Windmaster 500 which would do the job. 

Just to confirm what the others have said. I had a 1kW Futurenergy turbine a few years back. Initially I had it on a 7m pole. It had a clear view to the south west towards the English Channel and was some 50m from the house to the North East.  Luckily the prevailing wind was SW so generation was good with the wind from that direction. Anything with a Northerly in it produced next to nothing as the air was so turbulent. I raised the tower 2m to 9m which improved things quite a bit. I also got a modified longer tail from Futurenergy which reduced the useless swinging about in turbulent conditions.  In round numbers I used to get around 1000kWh per year from it BUT a lot of that generation was in big chunks. When we had a good gale blowing it would produce around 20kWh in a 24 hour period. So a lot less predictable than solar PV. I would say my site was pretty much as ideal as a domestic setting could get but as others have said they are noisy - very noisy. You will be on edge everytime a storm comes through - I never bottled out and lowered mine and it did survive windspeeds in excess of 80 MPH - but it made me quite nervous and frightened to go anywhere near it when the wind was howling. Flicker was also an issue - more for my good lady wife. In the low winter afternoon sun the blades used to cause an annoying flicker in our "sun lounge" at the back of the house. I kept it flying for around 5 years and it was an interesting exercise - and I do occasionally miss it BUT it did need a lot of maintenance, constant checking the tower and guy wires, slip rings etc. So I took it down and sold it on while it was still serviceable and worth something. In terms of maintenance, remember it is not an easy job raising and lowering a 9m tower with a heavy lump of turbine on top.

If it was me I would spend the money on more PV and/or a bigger battery.

Roger
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« Reply #12 on: August 11, 2019, 06:45:10 PM »

Cheers Nowty,
I read Eco George post when it came up. We see outstanding crosswinds at our location. Regarding turbulence i'll have to see. It's a cracking big garden so hope springs eternal. Pretty sure I want to to try a hawt and see if I can match it to the house background draw and dump excess to earth purely as a way to A. Gain knowledge of area with regards to potential wind for scaling up & B, just for a laugh. C. Would take X amount back into batteries quicker via the solar and allow more watts to go to the Iboost, without breaking into the workings of the Goodwe Hybrid controller as is with the panels and batteries. Totally open to all advice.

Edit-Marsh man,  outstanding, thanks. Lots to digest and run thru the remains. Why such a strong NO, details appreciated to help me on this learning curve.
« Last Edit: August 11, 2019, 06:57:05 PM by pantsmachine » Logged

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« Reply #13 on: August 11, 2019, 07:39:25 PM »

Just "NO" (to all types / designs / size) in  residential areas.

Navitron forum has oodles of archived material on the matter from the dark "swindle-save / swindlesave" period.

If you need to convince yourself further look those up, plenty of it back in the day.

One of the last times we discussed these was when some architects vaunted their integrated design in London flats, sold on its "potential" (they had millions in backing obviously) they were built, & turned off from a combination of resonance & debacle performance.

Plenty of data that should set you in the right direction (which is when you are a fit, able, obsessed, engineering capable, shed full of tools, cable laying  land owner of a big BIG open space that has already been tested for wind performance, & you have mates to call on to help you out take it down for servicing / incoming gales etc etc.

If you don't tick all those boxes you'll have a  heck of a time, they require a lot of coaxing along on a non commercial environment set up

Swindlesave got govt backing as a fit & forget, employing double glazing type tactics of salesmanship from a group who knew ala Gerald Ratner that they were selling "utter cr*p"

We all hoped that we'd be proven wrong, ..we weren't & that includes VAWT that keeps popping its head up periodically as "new".

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« Reply #14 on: August 11, 2019, 08:11:24 PM »

Sometimes domestic WTs are a useful way of getting the local planning department to agree to a dreadful building on "green" credentials:

Can you imagine trying to sleep with those grinding away on your bedroom ceiling in a moderate blow? I think all these have been locked solid now, I never see them turning.
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