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Author Topic: nat grid instability  (Read 3249 times)
brackwell
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« on: August 31, 2019, 08:31:47 AM »

I dont think i have ever seen the Nat Grid so unstable as yesterday/this morning.
ref https://www.bmreports.com/bmrs/?q=eds/main

A lot of low/zero pricing

Demand dropping in blips perhaps 5 in the 24hr

The interconnector flows all over the shop when they are usually quite stable

And why is coal being used when wind is at max and it is curtailing other (cheaper)? forms of production.
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Countrypaul
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« Reply #1 on: August 31, 2019, 10:26:28 AM »

Looks like coal is being used most evenings, I wonder iff this is so that there is some aditional spining reserve to try and smooth out some of the instability?  Is there any way of checking if the interconector flows are due to problems abroad rather than over here?
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Tinbum
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« Reply #2 on: August 31, 2019, 11:39:16 AM »

http://www.dynamicdemand.co.uk/grid.htm

It's been a while since I looked on the above site but I've never seen the meter swing so much in the past.
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ecogeorge
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« Reply #3 on: August 31, 2019, 08:37:31 PM »

Used to look at this .....
Am i being thick ? never seen the needle moving as you watch it ?? is that correct ?
George
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Tinbum
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« Reply #4 on: August 31, 2019, 08:52:02 PM »

What I mean is that the needle swings rapidly now, it always used to be a nice slow steady movement.

For example it would steadily rise and then you could see when some generation was turned of and it would drop then steadily rise again until some more generation was turned off. Now its swinging back and forth jerkily.
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85no 58mm solar thermal tubes, 28.5Kw PV, 3 x Sunny Backup 5048, 3x Sunny Island 5048, 2795 Ah (135kWh) (c20) Rolls batteries 48v, Atmos wood gasification boiler, Brosley wood burner, 2000lt buffer tank and 250lt DHW
ecogeorge
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« Reply #5 on: August 31, 2019, 08:53:32 PM »

What I mean is that the needle swings rapidly now, it always used to be a nice slow steady movement.

For example it would steadily rise and then you could see when some generation was turned of and it would drop then steadily rise again until some more generation was turned off. Now its swinging back and forth jerkily.
yes -this is what i mean too ....what has changed ??
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Tinbum
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« Reply #6 on: August 31, 2019, 09:17:08 PM »

Lack of spinning generation to damp it down, I think.
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azps
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« Reply #7 on: September 01, 2019, 11:47:21 AM »

What I mean is that the needle swings rapidly now, it always used to be a nice slow steady movement.

For example it would steadily rise and then you could see when some generation was turned of and it would drop then steadily rise again until some more generation was turned off. Now its swinging back and forth jerkily.
yes -this is what i mean too ....what has changed ??

I don't know, but it's probably a more frequently-updated data feed from the Grid: they've been working fairly steadily on improving data availability.
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Westie
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« Reply #8 on: September 01, 2019, 11:56:17 AM »

Lack of spinning generation to damp it down, I think.

Exactly what I was thinking.......

So my idea for today is not to demolish all of those coal fired power stations, keep a few  an replace the turbines with flywheels and  keep them spinning at 3000rpm using the alternators as motors, and use them as grid frequency dampers!



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Tinbum
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« Reply #9 on: September 04, 2019, 04:45:08 PM »

What I mean is that the needle swings rapidly now, it always used to be a nice slow steady movement.

For example it would steadily rise and then you could see when some generation was turned of and it would drop then steadily rise again until some more generation was turned off. Now its swinging back and forth jerkily.
yes -this is what i mean too ....what has changed ??

I don't know, but it's probably a more frequently-updated data feed from the Grid: they've been working fairly steadily on improving data availability.

Not so sure it's that as I've kept looking at it on occasions and it's a lot steadier most of the time.
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brackwell
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« Reply #10 on: September 06, 2019, 08:11:52 AM »

I have a feeling this is the first ever WEEK where the wind production of leccy has exceeded other forms but have been unable to find a source that could veryify this.
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azps
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« Reply #11 on: September 06, 2019, 12:53:00 PM »

I have a feeling this is the first ever WEEK where the wind production of leccy has exceeded other forms but have been unable to find a source that could veryify this.

The week ended 23.59 on the 4th did indeed have the plurality of geneartion from wind: 8.8 GW average from wind, 7.4 GW from CCGT, 6.2GW from nukes.

But it happened for the first time last autumn - the week to 2018-09-21 (and the week to the 22nd, and to the 23rd) of September 2018. Wind averaged 8.6 GW, CCGT averaged 7.7 GW. It also happened in March this year, and two week ago.
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brackwell
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« Reply #12 on: September 06, 2019, 05:01:11 PM »

Well thats even better news. Where do you get this kind of info from?
Ken
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azps
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« Reply #13 on: September 06, 2019, 05:26:59 PM »

Well thats even better news. Where do you get this kind of info from?

I've got a monster spreadsheet, into which I paste data from National Grid & PV Live. The earliest data is from 2005.

Then I add custom columns when someone asks a question that really interests me, as yours did.
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Tinbum
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« Reply #14 on: September 06, 2019, 06:04:14 PM »

Frequency is up and down and swinging all over the place!!
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85no 58mm solar thermal tubes, 28.5Kw PV, 3 x Sunny Backup 5048, 3x Sunny Island 5048, 2795 Ah (135kWh) (c20) Rolls batteries 48v, Atmos wood gasification boiler, Brosley wood burner, 2000lt buffer tank and 250lt DHW
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