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Author Topic: ICE drivers can be such "idiots" ..problem that might be attributed to Ebikes..  (Read 1427 times)
MR GUS
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« on: November 03, 2019, 01:19:26 PM »

Have used my E-bike quite a lot & am chugging away at a typical 18-20mph (assistance cuts out at 15.5mph obviously).

Problem is night OR day i'm getting cut up by drivers coming out of junctions misreading the speed i'm coming at (i.e. ineptitude) & am encountering "close collision" status as they swing across my path.

Its got to be the myopic attitude of "its just a bike" from the drivers ...but how long till the daily-fail attributes driver failings of ICE vehicles to that of being a major reason e-bikes present a danger to other road users in their usual twisting of reality to suit their readership? (BEVs can just tank it & keep accelerating without the slow gear shift or lack of engine pick up).

This happens to me regularly nowadays, anyone else?
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RIT
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« Reply #1 on: November 03, 2019, 02:22:40 PM »

I've seen it a good few times by other drivers, but I can still remember how fast I could cycle on the flat or down a hill when I owned a cycle in the distant past. Many drivers current experiences of cycling is coloured by trips out with their kids where they may manage 10 mph at best.

The other issue I see far more of in my area comes from all the 20 mph zones and traffic calming. The result is cars going at the same speed (or slower) than the cyclists, with the cyclists undertaking or overtaking to allow them to maintain the speed they have built up while trying to avoid speed bumps, choke points, parked cars and potholes. The results seem to be car drivers being yelled at for just about any manoeuvre they perform as they can be a cyclist to their left, right, right on their tail, or in their lane coming towards them.


The funning thing is that I gave up cycling a very long time ago due to how unsafe it was and since then the number of registered cars have more than doubled with the vast majority of them now parked all-day along the kerb, so leaving little space for cyclists. As for any form of resolution of the problems, I think it's going to take fully automated cars for the majority of cyclists to read the highway code and for the car to not miss cyclists in a blind spot (or to even look) - A cyclist can't argue with an automated car, but the car is going to be able to provide a 360 video report of an accident involving a cyclist. The result will be court cases where the car owner will sue the cyclist for loss of earning if the cyclist was in the wrong and then the chaos will start.
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Philip R
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« Reply #2 on: November 04, 2019, 12:54:32 AM »

We have a E cyclist round my neighbourhood that excedes 40MPH in a 30 Zone!
He has a cheap head and correspondingly protects it with a zero cost helmet! He will earn himself a Darwin award if he persists with his reckless antics.

I drive both a car and a motorbike, so I see the deficiencies from both sides. Car drivers sit in their armour plated tanks and do not give a fig for anyone else, especially fat  women in SUVs and old men wearing hats! The group I really despise are owners of Black cars, who will not put their lights on when it is dark or when visibility is poor.

Many cyclists are their own worst enemies, no regard for the highway code, cycling over pelican crossings, and not using lights at night.
Philip R
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todthedog
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« Reply #3 on: November 04, 2019, 06:35:57 AM »

As a part time cyclist ebike thought  I would try and go as fast as I could. Long open flat road,max help biggest gear, peddling as hard as I could got to 30mph and managed to hold it for 100yds.  Tour de France average more than this all day.

 Locally where cycle lanes exist they are full of rubbish and unusable totally agree with comments on SUVs get in and all thoughts vanish.
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Nickel2
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« Reply #4 on: November 04, 2019, 10:03:06 AM »

Round my way the council spent zillions on cycle paths, to cut down on road injuries etc. Most of the cyclists cannot read the signs, or don't care, so they just ride on the narrow lanes holding up the traffic and causing frayed patience. The cycle-lanes stay empty; you are not obliged by law to use them. A west lahndun cycle club holds cycle races along the A31 at Bentley, in 70mph traffic, regardless of the blind brows and bends. They are 'The Cyclists'.

<https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zBFFrsvgu1Y>
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dickster
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« Reply #5 on: November 04, 2019, 10:04:43 AM »

I pulled out in front of a cyclist. He was way left at the brow of the hill coming down towards me, I was at T junction turning right onto his future path. Misjudged his speed and my mistake, but he was going like the clappers, 30+ mph with cars parked on both sides of road. I didn't expect him to be going so fast and cycling without due regard for what might happen, like idiots pulling out in front of him. Basically cycling as if the highway code was a force field that would prevent him from having accident.  

My technical error, he probably won't last too long, but he was very good at swearing.
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MR GUS
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« Reply #6 on: November 04, 2019, 10:22:20 AM »

I've seen it a good few times by other drivers, but I can still remember how fast I could cycle on the flat or down a hill when I owned a cycle in the distant past. Many drivers current experiences of cycling is coloured by trips out with their kids where they may manage 10 mph at best.

Yup, RIT nailed it in one, .. via use of the "occasional" bike rider perception, precisely what if / when this ramps up by popularity & convenience of e-bikes this will be a lazy media starter for ten that won't deal with the reality behind "qualified" driving.

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brackwell
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« Reply #7 on: November 04, 2019, 10:54:32 AM »

Are people pulling out in front of you because you are creating "the gap" for them by holding up/slowing the traffic behind you?
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MR GUS
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« Reply #8 on: November 04, 2019, 11:03:55 AM »

No traffic behind me, this is in the countryside.
I'm on a main road, they are coming off the junction to the side of me.

I have the same problem on roundabouts on an E-bike, ending up with people shooting out when its my right of way "then, we nigh on meet" ..the less competent then brake in the middle of the roundabout lanes "confused" as what to do.  facepalm



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Bodidly
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« Reply #9 on: November 04, 2019, 12:05:57 PM »

I am a cyclist, e-biker and Ice driver. A gave up riding with clubs due to the lack of discipline. Cycling has been booming for years which is great but it led to huge groups leaving no spaces for cars to pass just created animosity. To be fair to that club they have now broken up the club into smaller groups to help. Some of my cycling mates show little regard for the rules of the road and will switch from pavements to cycle lanes and the road depending on what suits them. I hate it as if there is beef between a car and cycle there is only one loser  bike

The e-bike is fairly new territory for me but thus far I found it safer as with it set on boost I can get through a junction at the same speed as the traffic. Not been into town much so not done many roundabouts but I have always ridden being ready for someone pulling out on me. Found the old Paddington Bear stare works well when you know a driver has not properly noticed you.

Stay safe all
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spaces
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« Reply #10 on: November 04, 2019, 06:04:34 PM »

I've always ridden bikes as well as being something of a petrolhead (in a reasonably mature way even when in my twenties, I like to think) and beyond a tiny percentage of utter nutters don't think the problem lies with either one or the other. Rather it's our road layout design (including the sort of junction which has been restricted and reshaped to force motor vehicles to slow right down) and vehicle design amongst other factors, not least the excess tiredness of some of our workers which the modern economy is creating.

Still suffering dirty, rattling ICE cars rather than spending more than I ever would on a car which is left in public places, curiosity got the better of me so an ebike now lives with the other two wheelers and it's proving amusing and very useful. However, you've to use your brain a little and be aware of situations like long uphill high streets where others don't expect a bicycle to be approaching at 15mph.

I've seen some cyclists on ebikes resembling traditional shopping bikes which together with the choice of clothing helps create the idea they'll be moving at 6-10mph rather than the 15-20 they're capable of, perhaps not the cyclists' fault but something they ought to be aware of. With good quality panniers and other good equipment a bike looks much more 'serious' and is possibly taken more seriously by other road users - I don't believe it's just reflective stripes and good lighting, perhaps shiny componentry, glinting spokes and a host of other subtleties which help create the idea a bike could be moving quickly in that split second a driver's mind makes a decision.

Perhaps reflective tops and daytime lighting would make sense for all ebikers?
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marcus
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« Reply #11 on: November 04, 2019, 07:05:50 PM »

Round my way the council spent zillions on cycle paths, to cut down on road injuries etc. Most of the cyclists cannot read the signs, or don't care, so they just ride on the narrow lanes holding up the traffic and causing frayed patience. The cycle-lanes stay empty; you are not obliged by law to use them. A west lahndun cycle club holds cycle races along the A31 at Bentley, in 70mph traffic, regardless of the blind brows and bends. They are 'The Cyclists'.

<https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zBFFrsvgu1Y>

Have you tried using the cycle lanes yourself??

I haven't been on a bike for over 10yrs, but when I was riding I found that a lot (almost all) of the cycle lanes the council installed (no doubt at huge expense) were designed by someone who either knew nothing of cycling (as a means of getting from A to B at a reasonable speed), or though that cycling was all about cycling aimlessly with your young children to the park at around 3 mph.

Examples I remember include:-

combined cycle/pedestrian paths that are busy with parents & kids who all seem oblivious to the demarcation lines painted on the ground, thus preventing a responsible cyclist from doing much more than walking pace.

cycle lanes marked on the left of the road but with no parking restrictions, hence the cycle path is littered with parked cars so you have to cycle out in the 'road' anyway.

cycle lanes on pavement along a main road with lots of side roads - so instead of cruising merrily along the main road at a steady 20-25mph you're expected to grind to a halt at the side road give way; cross the side road when clear of road traffic; pedal back up to 'cruising speed'; only to have to grind to a halt again 100yds later at the next side road.

a cycle path that started 50yds before a 4-exit roundabout; followed the footpath around onto the 1st exit of the roundabout where, about 50yds on it ended and you had to re-join the dual carraigeway - marginally useful if you happened to want the 1st exit of the roundabout; but left you going completely the wrong way if you wanted one of the other exits (there was no signpost at the beginning of the cycle path to indicate it was left turn only).


So if your local cyclists are not using the local cycle paths it's probably because the paths were designed by some idiot car driver at the council who thinks that the purpose of cycle paths is to get the cyclists out of the way of car drivers, rather than something that might actually be of any use to a cyclist!  banghead
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MR GUS
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« Reply #12 on: November 04, 2019, 08:52:49 PM »



Perhaps reflective tops and daytime lighting would make sense for all ebikers?

..fit all drivers out in them & maybe crash helmets then, cos there's an awful lot of head trauma still where car accidents are concerned   Wink

it would certainly deflate the boy racer somewhat.
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todthedog
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« Reply #13 on: November 05, 2019, 07:18:01 AM »

Marcus +1
Add to that rubbish swept off the road.

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pdf27
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« Reply #14 on: November 05, 2019, 07:24:06 AM »


Have you tried using the cycle lanes yourself??

I haven't been on a bike for over 10yrs, but when I was riding I found that a lot (almost all) of the cycle lanes the council installed (no doubt at huge expense) were designed by someone who either knew nothing of cycling (as a means of getting from A to B at a reasonable speed), or though that cycling was all about cycling aimlessly with your young children to the park at around 3 mph.

Examples I remember include:-

combined cycle/pedestrian paths that are busy with parents & kids who all seem oblivious to the demarcation lines painted on the ground, thus preventing a responsible cyclist from doing much more than walking pace.

cycle lanes marked on the left of the road but with no parking restrictions, hence the cycle path is littered with parked cars so you have to cycle out in the 'road' anyway.

cycle lanes on pavement along a main road with lots of side roads - so instead of cruising merrily along the main road at a steady 20-25mph you're expected to grind to a halt at the side road give way; cross the side road when clear of road traffic; pedal back up to 'cruising speed'; only to have to grind to a halt again 100yds later at the next side road.

a cycle path that started 50yds before a 4-exit roundabout; followed the footpath around onto the 1st exit of the roundabout where, about 50yds on it ended and you had to re-join the dual carraigeway - marginally useful if you happened to want the 1st exit of the roundabout; but left you going completely the wrong way if you wanted one of the other exits (there was no signpost at the beginning of the cycle path to indicate it was left turn only).


So if your local cyclists are not using the local cycle paths it's probably because the paths were designed by some idiot car driver at the council who thinks that the purpose of cycle paths is to get the cyclists out of the way of car drivers, rather than something that might actually be of any use to a cyclist!  banghead
Totally agree with all that. Couple of additional points:
  • They're commonly full of broken glass, etc. which has been swept out of the main carriageway and left in the cycle lane.
  • Drivers typically think that because you're in a cycle lane that gives you a magic force-field that protects you from them. Cars on average come about ~30cm closer to me when I'm in the cycle lane by the side of the road in my village than after it ends, despite the road actually being wider in the cycle lane bit. Nearly being hit regularly by a heavy lorry is pretty intimidating - but if you move out of the cycle lane into the road itself they have to go into the other carriageway to pass you so usually leave a lot more room.
  • It isn't unusual for obstacles like lamp posts to be left right in the middle of a cycle lane. A friend of mine from school was seriously concussed after hitting one of these at night which he didn't see. At least on a road you can be reasonably confident there aren't any telegraph poles in the middle of it.
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