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Author Topic: Can I go electric?  (Read 586 times)
Bodidly
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« on: November 07, 2019, 01:51:49 PM »

I spend many hours a day running a firewood processor off a 15hp petrol engine. Now, this same machine can be bought in an electric version but we don't have 3 phase and I am pretty sure the supply would not be up to it even with a phase converter. Is it madness or even possible to set up a battery bank to run this machine? The reasons for wanting to go electric are noise, direct exposure to pollution and reduce my carbon footprint if possible.

Over to you  Smiley
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RIT
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« Reply #1 on: November 07, 2019, 02:21:30 PM »

I guess the first question is how much does it cost to run the current petrol-based unit - the supplier most likely provides some run time costs for the petrol and electric units.

The next question is what power draw does the electric version have? You say it's 3ph, but that does not provide enough detail for any real comments.


As for setting up a battery bank, anything is possible, but I would guess you will end up with a large traction battery array that is charged overnight and used during the day. Its size will be very dependent on the peak current draw and the total daily current draw.




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2.4kW PV system, output can be seen at  - https://pvoutput.org/list.jsp?userid=49083

Why bother? - well, there is no planet B
Countrypaul
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« Reply #2 on: November 07, 2019, 02:37:11 PM »

Normal rue of thib with any ICE is that 1/3of the energy goes to output power, 1/3 goes to heat the radiator and 1/3 goes up the exhaust in which case your 15hp petrol engine may only be the equivalent of a 5hp electric unit - it is possible that they do quote the output power of course.  A 5 HP motor is about 3.75 kW so would seem feasible for a single phase supply, in fact a 15hp electric motor would be around 45 Amp so not much different to some cookers!
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Nickel2
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« Reply #3 on: November 07, 2019, 02:50:30 PM »

Build a gasifier?
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1.140kW mono south-facing at 49*
EpEver 4210A at 24v
24V 400 Ah battery. (4x200Ah FLA)
EpEver STI1000-24-230 pure sine inverter
Of course it'll work. (It hasn't caught fire yet).
Bodidly
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« Reply #4 on: November 07, 2019, 04:23:53 PM »

I am waiting on the spec for the electric version. Other power sources say 7.5 kw

Nickel2 "Build a gasifier?"
Is this to use wood gas? If so it's not impossible at all as I have a charcoal retort but much of the spare gas is currently flared off. The downside is I am no chemist and not really sure on how you get the gas without  sh*tfan


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oliver90owner
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« Reply #5 on: November 07, 2019, 05:12:25 PM »

Normal rue of thib with any ICE is that 1/3of the energy goes to output power, 1/3 goes to heat the radiator and 1/3 goes up the exhaust in which case your 15hp petrol engine may only be the equivalent of a 5hp electric unit
...

Just not true.  If he were using all that 15HP available (11kW) he would be actually using energy at the rate of 33kW.

I would expect the motor rating for the mains unit to be rather less than the full power of the engine (engines usually run. at around 80-85% of full-power rating for continuous running.

Should have been running with a diesel engine anyway.  Do you reclaim your fuel tax for the petrol?

A three phase inverter would be expensive but would do the job, I expect.  Energy costs for the leccy must be much less than a petrol engine...
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Bodidly
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« Reply #6 on: November 07, 2019, 05:55:33 PM »




Should have been running with a diesel engine anyway.  Do you reclaim your fuel tax for the petrol?

A three phase inverter would be expensive but would do the job, I expect.  Energy costs for the leccy must be much less than a petrol engine...


I think they are fitted with petrol for cost-saving and weight distribution. This is a road tow machine with the engine to one side.

Yes, I claim the petrol as a buisness expense but I am not looking to change on cost grounds just wanting a nicer working environment.
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renewablejohn
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« Reply #7 on: November 07, 2019, 07:42:44 PM »

Why do you need 3 phase for such small hp you could get away with a single phase electric motor. I have made an electric saw bench from a heavy duty angle grinder attached to a former pub drinks table. Works very well and so much quieter then having to mess about with ICE engines. Have also converted the kindling machine to single phase electric. Still have the tractor for heavy duty work but tempted to convert the Palax Combi but would then need to take the generator with me for woodland work so maybe not practical.
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billi
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WWW
« Reply #8 on: November 08, 2019, 07:11:37 AM »

Hi

I had  a quote from them for a biomass / wouldgasifier generator about 13 years back   as an addition to my other gear
 Was surprisingly low cost  including shipping  to Ireland , 

https://www.ankurscientific.com/ankur-gasifiers-biomass-woody.html

Sure  an electric  solution with a traction battery and  single or three phase  AC  is possible , but would it not be better do have a DC eletric engine ? that can run direct from a battery bank ??

Regards Billi
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1.6 kw and 2.4 kw   PV array  , Outback MX 60 and FM80 charge controller  ,24 volt 1600 AH Battery ,6 Kw Victron inverter charger, 1.1 kw high head hydro turbine as a back up generator , 5 kw woodburner, 36 solar tubes with 360 l water tank, 1.6 kw  windturbine
renewablejohn
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« Reply #9 on: November 08, 2019, 01:47:19 PM »

Forgot to say a decent flywheel will reduce the size of the electric motor required as your only cutting in small bursts.
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TT
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« Reply #10 on: November 08, 2019, 05:39:42 PM »

Single phase to 3 phase inverter?
This could be another option

Have it on a plug and socket so that it can run on single phase.
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ecogeorge
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« Reply #11 on: November 08, 2019, 07:16:51 PM »

Single phase to 3 phase inverter?
This could be another option

Have it on a plug and socket so that it can run on single phase.

Have installed a few of these up to 15kw  (not on a plug tho) . Can recommend a supplier called - Power capacitors - no connection. Can find more details if yourequire.
George
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Nickel2
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« Reply #12 on: November 09, 2019, 08:18:24 AM »

Power Capacitors are a very helpful lot. I bought one of their static converters second hand on fleabuy for 200 about 7 years ago. Solid rugged reliable, it runs my lathe. one you have a 3-phase converter, it opens up a new realm of machines that were previously only industrial use. I've got the 2.2kW (3 HP) version.

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1.140kW mono south-facing at 49*
EpEver 4210A at 24v
24V 400 Ah battery. (4x200Ah FLA)
EpEver STI1000-24-230 pure sine inverter
Of course it'll work. (It hasn't caught fire yet).
Bodidly
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« Reply #13 on: November 09, 2019, 09:22:49 AM »

Just a little update. The electric motor that it can be provided with is as I thought 7.5kw but only 3 phase option.

Yep, already have a small rotary type inverter from Power capacitors. Probably 20 years old with one problem which was fixed with a phone call so they would be my go-to firm for sure. Not yet found out the LRA rating of the motor so waiting on this as a friendly sparky thought this would be key to if our supply can handle it.
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oliver90owner
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« Reply #14 on: November 09, 2019, 11:08:07 AM »

If the motor can be sourced as dual voltage, a VFD  would likely not be too expensive (130 - 200+).  Some second hand motors on epay, but I would expect most are configured as star (but likely easily rewired as delta connection).

Clearly could not be run from a normal 13A plug (need a feed of 34A), but would afford soft start and a load of other programmable options. You may well require different pulleys and belts, which are likely of the 3-sheave variety?

I currently use four VFDs on my lathe and milling machines.  Much lower powered -1.5kW max power - but I will avoid, wherever possible, buying single phase induction motors in the future.

I would expect a rotary converter capable of that power would be running a large motor in the box! Not sure of the efficiency of such a set up, but not great.
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