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Author Topic: Power cuts  (Read 703 times)
djs63
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« on: November 08, 2019, 03:42:29 PM »

We have had an electric car for 3 years and generate a fair proportion of our own electricity needs but already this week we have had 2 power cuts of at least 4 hours each. Especially in winter we have cuts lasting a day or more. Thus relying on an EV for transport starts to become risky. We live in the countryside. The few local public chargers are also unavailable during power cuts.

So, a big battery would help. The existing Leaf at 30 KWh would require a big commercially available domestic type battery and a Kia e-Niro would need one with twice the capacity. Expensive!  surrender

A battery with 10 KWh capacity emptied into the car (either model) would give about 40 miles extra range which would allow shopping, visits to GP etc.

Is this the way to go?
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« Reply #1 on: November 08, 2019, 04:32:49 PM »

That depends on the battery that you choose, i have an 8kWh battery but it does not have an emergency outlet that can be used during a power cut, i guess that during a power cut most batteries isolate themselves (shut down) to completely remove the possibility of any discharge that may hurt any power workers.

So if you look at batteries for this purpose make sure that you get one that can isolate itself from the grid and continue to power the house and or car during an outage, most probably cannot.
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Fintray
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« Reply #2 on: November 08, 2019, 04:51:53 PM »

A battery can be handy to maximise your use of self generated power but for having one available to cover any power cuts of the lengths you mention is likely to be expensive as you'd also want to make sure it was fully charged just in case a power cut occurred.
Tesla Powerwall 2 has the facility to do what you need if you want to go that route.
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« Reply #3 on: November 08, 2019, 05:11:04 PM »

We have had an electric car for 3 years and generate a fair proportion of our own electricity needs but already this week we have had 2 power cuts of at least 4 hours each. Especially in winter we have cuts lasting a day or more. Thus relying on an EV for transport starts to become risky. We live in the countryside. The few local public chargers are also unavailable during power cuts.

So, a big battery would help. The existing Leaf at 30 KWh would require a big commercially available domestic type battery and a Kia e-Niro would need one with twice the capacity. Expensive!  surrender

A battery with 10 KWh capacity emptied into the car (either model) would give about 40 miles extra range which would allow shopping, visits to GP etc.

Is this the way to go?

As it is for emergency, I'd look at an appropriately sized generator as opposed to batteries.
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biff
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« Reply #4 on: November 08, 2019, 05:18:51 PM »

I know it ain't,t green,,
            But a suitable 5kw PMG and a 15 hp  Yanmar clone could possible charge your EV. Just use the appropriate W/T controller and you could possibly supply the house from the EV as the charger runs. It's just a question of getting the electrics set up and running. There are no wasteful transformers. The PMG is rectified and goes straight into the Ev Battery. Once the battery starts getting near 80%  full  you switch off. I have found that as the battery voltage climbs into the Dump load area and beyond  the engine  has to work harder and possibly not as economic. It is a great form of backup.
        Biff.
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oliver90owner
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« Reply #5 on: November 08, 2019, 06:28:38 PM »

a Kia e-Niro would need one with twice the capacity. Expensive!  surrender

With a near 300 mile range, what makes you think it would need a large back-up charging system?  Just have to consider charging a bit less Ďlocalí if a problem arose.
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TT
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« Reply #6 on: November 08, 2019, 08:19:35 PM »

Just keep it on charge constantly at home, so that I'm the event of a power failure you have the most range.

What about powering the house during the power cut?
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RIT
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« Reply #7 on: November 08, 2019, 09:36:17 PM »

A good generator would seem to be the best starting point. If you can find a bottled gas-based one you can then have 2 or 3 47Kg gas bottles delivered and replaced as and when needed.

To go with battries you are most likely looking at a traction battery setup as they are a far cheaper option for large amounts of capacity than Lithium-based batteries if you do not expect to discharge them daily. The site I use to get indication prices has a 61kWh rated pack for £6,295, which if discharged slowly at say 3kW has an extended C20 rating of 80kWh.
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« Reply #8 on: November 08, 2019, 10:50:09 PM »

For that cost it makes sense to get a bike, ebike, an old banger
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« Reply #9 on: November 09, 2019, 07:51:08 AM »

A good generator would seem to be the best starting point. If you can find a bottled gas-based one you can then have 2 or 3 47Kg gas bottles delivered and replaced as and when needed.

To go with battries you are most likely looking at a traction battery setup as they are a far cheaper option for large amounts of capacity than Lithium-based batteries if you do not expect to discharge them daily. The site I use to get indication prices has a 61kWh rated pack for £6,295, which if discharged slowly at say 3kW has an extended C20 rating of 80kWh.

I agree (Or even for 2000 GBP less) ,  then one has a 80 kWh  battery , that should last 15 years plus  and beside  taking over car charging  at powercuts, if utilized as an electricity supply for a PV house,  during "normal " days and nights ,   as well   80 kWh capacity   used with a heatpump  can pe helpfull for heat too , beside the other side-effect that  one can exceed  the 4 kw PV limit

Billi
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« Reply #10 on: November 09, 2019, 07:33:54 PM »

That is nothing a good ICE engine will not sort out, powerring a cheap second vehicle.  More batteries, No. too much environmental damage, ripping the ore out the ground and processing it into more batteries, waiting to pollute the planet at the end of their life.

Philip R.
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RIT
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« Reply #11 on: November 09, 2019, 08:54:11 PM »

That is nothing a good ICE engine will not sort out, powerring a cheap second vehicle.  More batteries, No. too much environmental damage, ripping the ore out the ground and processing it into more batteries, waiting to pollute the planet at the end of their life.

Philip R.

Lead has a very high recycling rate in the western world, somewhere in the region of 95%. The reason being is that we have had over 100 years of lead-acid battery reprocessing, the process is now so well handled that both the plastic and acid are normally also recycled. It helps that a lead-acid battery separates so easily compared to other things that should be recycled.

Over the next 10-20 years, we may even get into the position of having to much Lead available due to the replacement of ICE cars with EV or fuel cell-based cars. While the new cars normally still have a 12V lead-acid utility battery it is normally smaller in size as it does not have to support engine cranking.
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djs63
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« Reply #12 on: November 10, 2019, 03:24:54 PM »

Thank you for your ideas, very helpful.
Related questions:
Does anyone know if you can connect a wind turbine to any commercially available domestic battery systems?

And (the opposite of my original question) has anyone yet produced a system to use an EV eg Leaf, to power the house in a power cut, protecting grid repair workers?
Thank you again.
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« Reply #13 on: November 10, 2019, 04:06:07 PM »

Hi djs63,
                I am positive that all the things that you have described have been in operation for some time.
 There is absolutely no reason why the EV battery could not double down to power the house during outage. It is just a question of making sure that the proper switching gear is used.
  In my own case, I may be offgrid but I originally placed a 48olt  forklift pack on the tynes of a 72volt forklift truck and wired them in series using only a 4ft lenght of cable.
 I withdrew the charging plug from the forklift and ran two cables through the wall to the controller inside. It stayed like that for 2 years until I removed the 72v pack from the forklift and put all the 60 cells in a neater arrangement where that still sit to this day over 10 years later. I am sure there are people using their EV cars for powering their homes but they are not going to broadcast it because of the warranty, etc.
            Biff
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« Reply #14 on: November 10, 2019, 04:07:05 PM »

Quote from RIT.
Lead has a very high recycling rate in the western world, somewhere in the region of 95%. The reason being is that we have had over 100 years of lead-acid battery reprocessing, the process is now so well handled that both the plastic and acid are normally also recycled. It helps that a lead-acid battery separates so easily compared to other things that should be recycled.

[/quote]

Enthoven have the biggest single-site battery recycling factory in Europe, near Matlock, on old quarry land. Hereís an article about the joys of lead, ending with some recycled Enthoven ingots.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-29568505
« Last Edit: November 10, 2019, 04:08:37 PM by stannn » Logged

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