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Author Topic: Is this sub-forum dead ?  (Read 9582 times)
regen
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« Reply #15 on: November 15, 2019, 09:58:04 PM »

the distance from the intake to the turbine and the fall between the two points. The distance will give the pipe length which is important for working out flow resistance and together with max usable flow the pipe diameter. The bigger the pipe diameter the more difficult it is to work with and the pipe cost tends to rise exponentially The fall between the two points is the usable head. Look up powerspout as some useful info there.
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whyamisocold
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« Reply #16 on: November 16, 2019, 10:42:37 AM »

Ah, thanks for that...makes sense.
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Pile-o-stone
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« Reply #17 on: February 19, 2020, 12:14:40 PM »

I presume your in the UK if so your biggest problem will be the Environment Agency. Even if your figures stack up for head, flow and power output if the EA then decides your only allowed 10% of that flow and you have to install fish ladders etc then viability goes out the window.  The alternative is stealth which is probably why this area of the forum seems quiet. Its not a case of not knowing what or how to do it. More we have already done it but dont want to advertise the fact to the annoying clip board warriors who are quite prepared to let the countryside flood due to there mismanagement.

Is it really onerous to get permission? We have a small stream with good flow in winter (which would be ideal as the solar is more than enough in summer) and I'd like to use it if possible. The stream has no fish and starts about a mile away on the moors in a boggy area. I assume the source is from a spring.

I'd be looking at running a pipe from higher up the stream to a LH turbine. I assume I'd need an abstraction license as well, though the water would go back into stream once it's passed through the turbine?

I could potentially get away with a secret turbine, but would prefer to be above board. I don't mind filling in forms and having a huge wait, but if the cost is hgih then it'd not be worth it for the couple of hundred watt/hrs I'd be generating.
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oliver90owner
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« Reply #18 on: February 19, 2020, 02:16:52 PM »

A ‘couple hundred Watt hours” could amount to £250 pa at grid prices?  Worth even more to an off-grid person.  But I suspect the jobsworth lot would want a huge chunk, of that saving.
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biff
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« Reply #19 on: February 19, 2020, 02:52:35 PM »

Good point Rab,
       200watt steady is very valuable  especially during the dark days of winter.
       Biff
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Pile-o-stone
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« Reply #20 on: February 19, 2020, 04:37:17 PM »

A ‘couple hundred Watt hours” could amount to £250 pa at grid prices?  Worth even more to an off-grid person.  But I suspect the jobsworth lot would want a huge chunk, of that saving.

I assume there is still  a feed in tariff for micro hydro too (?), but as I'd be looking to install a Powerspout LH I don't think it'd qualify?
The turbine would be around £1500 and the pipe and other ancillaries would be about the same again, so a 12 year payback. However, as you say, the jobsworth lot may destroy that reasonable payback with their fees (if any). That's why I'd be interested to know how much that part would cost from someone who has been through the process. If it's "£500 all in" then that's one thing, if it runs into thousands with surveys and the like then it's not worth it.

Good point Rab,
       200watt steady is very valuable  especially during the dark days of winter.
       Biff

Definitely, as it would cover a lot of our baseload electricity usage overnight. If I added a battery into the mix, the solar and hydro together would have us off grid for large parts of the day in summer and the shoulder months.
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Pile-o-stone
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« Reply #21 on: February 19, 2020, 06:06:00 PM »

I was looking at the powerspout LH and it comes with a 200mm Draft tube. I was wondering what would be the minimum size penstock pipe needed to supply water to the turbine? The penstock pipe represents a large part of the cost, and the larger diameter the pipe, the greater the cost. I'd therefore want to install a pipe with a diameter that would supply just enough water to keep the turbine going.  I'm guessing too large a pipe would mean water just overflowing the water intake canal and too small a pipe would result in air being sucked into the turbine draft tube.

I assume it's not as simple as a 200mm penstock pipe to match the 200mm draft tube as the LH turbine sits in the draft tube and would restrict the flow. I hope so anyway as a 200mm pipe would be expensive.  Anyone got any ideas?
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biff
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« Reply #22 on: February 19, 2020, 06:33:31 PM »

Big pipe small adjustable jet to the pelton wheel  ?
       Biff
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« Reply #23 on: February 19, 2020, 07:02:12 PM »

or a "turgo" 

But perhaps   you should do some measuring in relation to flow and head ??
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marcus
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« Reply #24 on: February 19, 2020, 07:09:17 PM »

without knowing what head, penstock length and flow you are working with it would be difficult to advise on pipe size. If the powerspout LH is most suitable then that would suggest you need quite a large flow and quite a large pipe - but if you put your parameters into powerspouts calculator it should tell you what diammeter pipe you need anyway.
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« Reply #25 on: February 19, 2020, 07:25:46 PM »

https://www.krisharbour.co.uk/copy-of-the-roundhouse

A good you tube website on natural building. Good hydro project too.

He quit the rat race to live a better lifestyle.

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Pile-o-stone
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« Reply #26 on: February 20, 2020, 11:03:28 AM »

if you put your parameters into powerspouts calculator it should tell you what diameter pipe you need anyway.

Thanks for the info. It needed a 400mm dia pipe so I guess a 450 twinwalled pipe would suffice. I'm not sure what the EA woudl think as a pipe that large would probably swallow all the water in the stream Smiley
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gravyminer
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« Reply #27 on: February 20, 2020, 11:48:50 AM »

if you need a 400 dia pipe and are going to take most/all of the flow, you probably have no chance to do this legit and dont think the EA will ignore a flow of this size as there will almost certainly be fish present, so just a cursory glance at the rools kinda suggests a reason why this sub forum doesnt get much traffic.

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/new-hydropower-scheme-apply-to-build-one

I have a lovely moorland stream dancing past my property and have long dreamed about a discreet hydro diversion.
However, I work with the EA regarding contaminated land and have had a few 'off the record' conversations and have been suitably discouraged .....
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gravyminer
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« Reply #28 on: February 20, 2020, 03:45:28 PM »

A 400mm pipe should produce rather more than 200W!
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« Reply #29 on: February 20, 2020, 09:11:11 PM »

Well,  if its only about a low head turbine , than the pipe run should be fairly short .

But  again ,   a turgo or pelton  turbine would be much smaller , more invisible , etc,.... but seems no  option ??
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