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Author Topic: Octopus Agile goes negative  (Read 1777 times)
oliver90owner
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« Reply #15 on: February 08, 2020, 06:54:47 PM »

Are negative prices a good thing? SUrely it means that right now, there's less of a financial incentive to invest in renewables/wind?
If the electricity has no value, why generate it?

It does get deeply philosophical, but unpredictable supply must have its own problems, surely?

Look at it this way - the surplus, expensive energy (from cost and pollution) was the fossil fuelled generation.  So Nothing really to do with renewables. 

When there is a surplus using 100% of zero generation cost energy (inclusive of pollution), the very slightly elevated contract prices offered for generators to turn off some generation (or use it for alternatives, such as hydrogen production) would be appreciated.
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dimengineer
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« Reply #16 on: February 09, 2020, 02:34:36 PM »

Thats an interesting bit of spin! As long as you have generation which is "uncontrollable" - as it were, you'll always have situations where there is too much. So its everything to do with renewbles, surely? Even If you drive down fossil fuel generation to zero, you will have (even more) days when you have surplus, of no value, surely?
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« Reply #17 on: February 09, 2020, 04:18:32 PM »

Are negative prices a good thing?

In long-term equilibrium, in a perfect market, no.

But neither of those conditions apply here. Instead, we're in a transitional phase in an inefficient market, and the negative prices are part of the transition, and are a good thing. They are stimulating whole new markets in demand response: innovators like Octopus Energy

Quote
Surely it means that right now, there's less of a financial incentive to invest in renewables/wind?

It's pretty much a negligible reduction in incentive, because virtually no new wind investment in GB is done on the basis of exposure to the wholesale market: the highly-successful CfD regime is designed to remove almost all of that exposure.

Quote
If the electricity has no value, why generate it?

Well, that's exactly why the wholesale price is negative: to ensure that any valueless electricity is not generated. And/or to create demand to consume the generated electricity.
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dan_b
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« Reply #18 on: February 16, 2020, 08:14:42 AM »

4 hours of negative prices last night - Storm Dennis and low demand is a good combination! 
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pantsmachine
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« Reply #19 on: February 16, 2020, 09:22:25 AM »

I am on a job in Cyprus and this is the 1st time i've been paid to charge my batteries. Rather wonderful yet mildly strange!
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« Reply #20 on: August 24, 2020, 02:09:57 PM »

Well the flipside to variable tariffs hit today for Agile  - 35p/kWh between 5.30 and 7pm today,   having already been 25p at 4pm. 
And indeed between 10-15p all day from 7am through to 4pm.

No wind, not much solar, nuclear almost completely absent, it's all basically gas gas gas, and probably a bit of coal too.  Amazing how burning stuff is more expensive for generating electricity isn't it...
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« Reply #21 on: August 24, 2020, 07:38:10 PM »

Might turn negative again tomorrow with Storm Francis. snow snow snow

Just wondering with the nukes being so low we might hit a new wind record tomorrow ?, maybe not enough demand but will be watching it closely.
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« Reply #22 on: August 26, 2020, 05:28:10 PM »

Another 3.5-hour 35p peak period tomorrow  bike
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kdmnx
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« Reply #23 on: August 26, 2020, 08:36:13 PM »

We need two threads:
 1) Octopus agile goes negative.
 2) Octopus agile over 30p.
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oliver90owner
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« Reply #24 on: August 26, 2020, 10:10:39 PM »

Being a low leccy user and the fact that my wife is incapable of changing (always wants to cook in that peak period) has put me off changing to Octopus for another year.  Maybe when I can get a battery set up and running, to avoid those peaks.....
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pantsmachine
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« Reply #25 on: August 27, 2020, 09:05:17 AM »

Set a timer on the cooker, I dare you! We have had 2.8MWh from our batteries. The vast majority of that was as a 2 battery stack  in addition very little over the 2 years has been grid charged (couple of percent). As there are so many variables I go with 15p per KWh.That would be roughly 420 saved in two years by what the batteries have stored and discharged.

Along with the 6,000 cycle 10 year warranty I think the batteries are worth having. There are so many variables that I've not mentioned but going on the 2 I originally bought I'd see all of my battery outlay back in 8.5 years. It's not an amazing return rate but it's there, beyond 8.5 years we'll just have to see the state of the batteries and full time of working life + that nice FeEling of being a low polluter.
« Last Edit: August 27, 2020, 09:49:40 AM by pantsmachine » Logged

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ecojet
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« Reply #26 on: September 07, 2020, 06:25:05 PM »

Although I'm not supposed to, I could try and sneak an extension lead across the pavement to my Tesla and plug that in too

There's maybe some money to be made here. Loads of households are going to have this problem, especially in London.

I'm not sure that I can coherently describe the solution I have in my mind ... it's like ... you know those anglepoise lamps? So imagine that, but then each arm is like 2.5 metres or so. And like the anglepoise lamp, it has an electric cable running through the arms themselves. And instead of the lamp head, there's the plug to go into the electric car, and it's got an extra two metres of cable.

So, you have this anglepoise fitting mounted the inside of the front wall of your garden, and it folds down flat, maybe into a long thin box when not in use.  And it folds out to lift the cable 2.5m high over the footway, and the arm stretches across the width of the footway, so that the plug dangles down and will plug into car, without risking garotting anyone.

The wind load might get a bit hairy, I guess.

Like those old trolley buses - saw them in Moscow when changing lanes manually - lots of sparks flying!



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dan_b
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« Reply #27 on: September 15, 2020, 04:55:50 PM »

Octopus Agile is very pricey at the moment - really seeing the effects of low wind, nuclear still in all sorts of problems, and increased demand with things "going back to normal".   
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