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Author Topic: Octopus Agile  (Read 11707 times)
azps
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« Reply #75 on: March 04, 2020, 06:57:16 PM »

I like the idea of “agile” and who wouldn’t want negative pricing. But it doesn’t make sense when you think about it.

Really? Why not?

For the reasons listed in my answer!
  • Most days you get cheaper overnight power on "go"
  • There is no early evening peak on "go"
  • On "go" you can set-and-forget all your timers


The lack of early evening peak on "go" is a good reason why "go" doesn't make sense to me.

Agile seems to make more sense to me than pretty much any other tariff on the market, but then I can't help but see these things from a system perspective more than from my perspective as a single residential customer. Go seems like a tariff from the early 1980s - it's basically a rebadged, slimmed-down Economy 7, right? Maybe it's useful as a transition tariff - maybe we don't have enough smart appliances yet, so customers are still tied to clumsy timers rather than smart triggers fed by dynamic tariff.
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kdmnx
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« Reply #76 on: March 04, 2020, 08:04:31 PM »

I like the idea of “agile” and who wouldn’t want negative pricing. But it doesn’t make sense when you think about it.

Really? Why not?

For the reasons listed in my answer!
  • Most days you get cheaper overnight power on "go"
  • There is no early evening peak on "go"
  • On "go" you can set-and-forget all your timers


The lack of early evening peak on "go" is a good reason why "go" doesn't make sense to me.

Agile seems to make more sense to me than pretty much any other tariff on the market, but then I can't help but see these things from a system perspective more than from my perspective as a single residential customer. Go seems like a tariff from the early 1980s - it's basically a rebadged, slimmed-down Economy 7, right? Maybe it's useful as a transition tariff - maybe we don't have enough smart appliances yet, so customers are still tied to clumsy timers rather than smart triggers fed by dynamic tariff.

I get all that. I’m attracted to agile too for the same reasons. However the reality is that “go” is cheaper and more convenient.
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dan_b
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« Reply #77 on: March 04, 2020, 10:53:51 PM »

All of that is true but it’s the battery system I have and unlike a few years ago I don’t have spare cash flow to chuck at something better so I need to just make the most of what I’ve got.



Quote

Lead-acid has a poor round-trip efficiency. Modern LiFePO4 batteries can get c.95% round-trip efficiency.

You can always add more batteries but your 700W charge rate is the deal-breaker. Modern systems charge/discharge at 3600W typically. The 700W in 1100W out isn’t bad for storing excess solar, or even economy 7 grid power. But for the short periods of cheap power on “go” and even more so on “agile” you really need to be chugging back the power. Some people are sucking in 20kW!
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pantsmachine
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« Reply #78 on: March 05, 2020, 09:10:52 AM »

I like the idea of “agile” and who wouldn’t want negative pricing. But it doesn’t make sense when you think about it.

Really? Why not?

For the reasons listed in my answer!
  • Most days you get cheaper overnight power on "go"
  • There is no early evening peak on "go"
  • On "go" you can set-and-forget all your timers


The lack of early evening peak on "go" is a good reason why "go" doesn't make sense to me.

Agile seems to make more sense to me than pretty much any other tariff on the market, but then I can't help but see these things from a system perspective more than from my perspective as a single residential customer. Go seems like a tariff from the early 1980s - it's basically a rebadged, slimmed-down Economy 7, right? Maybe it's useful as a transition tariff - maybe we don't have enough smart appliances yet, so customers are still tied to clumsy timers rather than smart triggers fed by dynamic tariff.

I get all that. I’m attracted to agile too for the same reasons. However the reality is that “go” is cheaper and more convenient.

Time will tell. I am having a 3 month experiment with agile and will see how it plays out before deciding which is preferable. Dan, it's all a learning curve! I picked up my 3rd battery for 610 on ebay 2nd hand. Each incremental step in the RE process leads to a mini enlightenment. Smiley
« Last Edit: March 05, 2020, 09:16:47 AM by pantsmachine » Logged

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« Reply #79 on: March 05, 2020, 09:19:54 AM »

I think that if you have batteries then Go is the way to, er, go.   whistlie
Certainly in our area at least, it seems to be cheaper during the Go period the vast majority of the time.

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« Reply #80 on: March 05, 2020, 09:42:01 AM »

I also think that GO is generally better for me, but it might be better for me to switch to AGILE in order to combine it with Octopus OUTGOING. But as I am currently on the GO FASTER trial and getting a credit of £5 per month I am going to wait till that's over before trying something else.
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« Reply #81 on: March 05, 2020, 09:45:45 AM »

Indeed, if you're not learning you're not growing, or something.
I am increasingly wondering about whether it might be possible to hack/bodge more batteries into my PowerVault though.  Anyone got any experience with that? Anyone interested in helping me do it?!

Time will tell. I am having a 3 month experiment with agile and will see how it plays out before deciding which is preferable. Dan, it's all a learning curve! I picked up my 3rd battery for 610 on ebay 2nd hand. Each incremental step in the RE process leads to a mini enlightenment. Smiley
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Mk1 ImmerSUN DHW diverter
4kW PowerVault Battery

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billi
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« Reply #82 on: March 05, 2020, 11:12:41 AM »

Quote
Lead-acid has a poor round-trip efficiency. Modern LiFePO4 batteries can get c.95% round-trip efficiency.

Kdmnx ,

 that is only partial true  and a welcome and  common misinformation
Each situation is different , so  i just can"t  just say , that a 500 $  per kWh stored   Li-something  is more efficient than a 50$ lead acid one

In the end its the cost per kWh  one can squeeze  out of a storage idea , and sofar  i have not seen  Li-named products to  convince me of their efficiency

Billi




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kdmnx
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« Reply #83 on: March 05, 2020, 11:37:19 AM »

Indeed, if you're not learning you're not growing, or something.
I am increasingly wondering about whether it might be possible to hack/bodge more batteries into my PowerVault though.  Anyone got any experience with that? Anyone interested in helping me do it?!

Time will tell. I am having a 3 month experiment with agile and will see how it plays out before deciding which is preferable. Dan, it's all a learning curve! I picked up my 3rd battery for 610 on ebay 2nd hand. Each incremental step in the RE process leads to a mini enlightenment. Smiley

The "hacking more batteries in" part is easy and fun! I've done it with UPSs for years.

Step 1: Figure out how your batteries are arranged. Typically they will be in 24V or 48V strings. Higher-end setups tend to be bespoke voltages such as 60V or 84V. I have no idea how your PowerVault is equipped.

Step 2: Aquire a MUCH bigger battery bank in the same voltage. Traction batteries are by far the best. They're always for sale on Ebay. Difficult to transport though. OR you can buy 12V "Solar" or "Marine" batteries and build your own battery bank.

A typical "700W" UPS might have 2x 7A 12V batteries. Hacking in 2x 110Ah batteries is a very common mod. You can hack in as many pairs of of 110Ah (or whatever) batteries as you like. In this UPS example, the charger is usually very weedy and can take several days (or even weeks!) to recover from an outage.

Your low charge/discharge rate makes this project easier because it makes the cables required much more sensible. I can see your setup being good for storing solar generated during the day to cover your overnight "baseload" or even from a sunny day to use on a dull day.  

« Last Edit: March 05, 2020, 11:39:06 AM by kdmnx » Logged

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dan_b
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« Reply #84 on: March 05, 2020, 01:42:32 PM »

I might take the lid off and take some photos of the set-up - just for research purposes of course
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3.06kWp SolarEdge system with a split array:
2.18kWp 10x South facing, plus 4x West facing 880W

Mk1 ImmerSUN DHW diverter
4kW PowerVault Battery

Tesla Model 3 Long Range
kdmnx
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« Reply #85 on: March 05, 2020, 04:21:44 PM »

I might take the lid off and take some photos of the set-up - just for research purposes of course

Cool!

Things to look for:
  • How many batteries?
  • Capacity of the batteries?
  • How are they wired? (series/parallel)

A multimeter is helpful if you have one...
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billi
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« Reply #86 on: March 06, 2020, 07:25:34 AM »

Quote
Traction batteries are by far the best. They're always for sale on Ebay
Oh , but i suggest to be carefull to buy there  and is
Quote
"hacking more batteries in"
a common practice ?
« Last Edit: March 06, 2020, 11:08:50 AM by billi » Logged

1.6 kw and 2.4 kw   PV array  , Outback MX 60 and FM80 charge controller  ,24 volt 1600 AH Battery ,6 Kw Victron inverter charger, 1.1 kw high head hydro turbine as a back up generator , 5 kw woodburner, 36 solar tubes with 360 l water tank, 1.6 kw  windturbine
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« Reply #87 on: March 07, 2020, 05:39:38 PM »

Just got onto Agile and Agile Outgoing today so looking forward to some lower bills!  Smiley
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« Reply #88 on: March 07, 2020, 07:46:38 PM »

I'm so jealous of the lot of you. I can't get any working smart meters up my hill.
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« Reply #89 on: March 08, 2020, 12:38:00 PM »

I'm so jealous of the lot of you. I can't get any working smart meters up my hill.

Do they have a sim card in them?

What network?
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