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Author Topic: Economics of domestic batts  (Read 2955 times)
brackwell
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« Reply #30 on: February 19, 2020, 09:36:22 AM »

Thought this was an interesting read  https://cleantechnica.com/2020/02/18/tesla-shanghai-model-3-may-go-cobalt-free-using-catls-lfp-cells-diving-deeper/

I am thinking that present residential batts are just the castoffs of the EV ind and that R&D  but perhaps there will come a time when residentaial batts get their own attention but perhaps that will be a spinoff of utility scale batts where space is not a restraint nor need to be as tough. just comparatively cheap  I can envisage a storage batt being produced for 50% the cost of a EV batt

Ken
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RIT
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« Reply #31 on: February 19, 2020, 11:15:12 AM »

Is there not a lead acid system available to do this at significantly cheaper outlay, I admit it may not be one packaged unit?

I would like batteries, but think more Lead Acid would be the way for me in a static environment.


Large lead-acid battery banks are cheaper per kW of capacity, but their cycle life is a lot shorter than Li based solution. The result is that the total amount of kWh storage over their lives is around the same.

If you have space a lead-acid solution will most likely offer a lot more capacity in case of a major need - power cut/zombie apocalypse etc.
« Last Edit: February 19, 2020, 05:15:49 PM by RIT » Logged

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« Reply #32 on: February 19, 2020, 05:31:55 PM »


RIT, I like the idea of an EV that can be plugged in and the remaining charge of the day used for house. Although in agile that user would be exposed to the 4pm to 7pm high rate if they were on the commute home with no residential battery to discharge? Might not be enough reason to go to the expense.


It will be interesting to see how TOU tariffs evolve over time. At the moment the 'peak' charging rate seen on the agile tariff is a more creation of Octopus, rather than being due to the wholesale market. In many ways, the users of peak power are subsidizing the costs of users of power over the rest of the day as Octopus adds an addition 12p gross profit margin to the rate. It shows how much is changing and how quickly when Octopus started the tariff the peak rate often hit the 35p cap. Now I guess due to their size, a market that understands their needs better and lower overall energy costs the peak rate (without the 12p uprating) is not much more than the pre and post rates.

Cars used for a daily commute are not going to be a good choice for battery storage unless owned by a single person, but there are a lot of households with second cars or made up of retired people. Homeworking may also increase, but I've been hearing that for the last 20 years or so as the first home working project I got involved in was around 1992 and planned to use ADSL (2 x 64kbit connections) for the network connection between home and office.
« Last Edit: February 19, 2020, 08:38:43 PM by RIT » Logged

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Justme
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« Reply #33 on: February 19, 2020, 08:32:11 PM »

When people are working out if its cost viable are you using claimed efficiency stats?

The claims seem to be mains to bat 90+% & bat to mains 90+%.
On a 4kWh mains used charge thats 3.24kwh actually usable on the output.


Empirical data suggest that those numbers are optimistic.
More realistic is mains to bat 80% & bat to mains 80%.
Resulting in a 4kWh charge giving just 2.56kWh for the end user.

We are currently looking at getting mains installed to use instead of the genny.

That will reduce our input per kWh costs but is it still worth using the inverter & battery bank?
The genny is making a kWh for about 25p.
In summer the solar covers our full use. In winter it does not scratch the surface.

As we are low users I cant see a break even point.





Have you thought about wind? If you’re off grid and have enough solar to cover summer but struggle in winter then a kW or two of wind will make a big impact on your winter genny use.

Not a great wind location as we live in a woodland.
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« Reply #34 on: February 26, 2020, 12:48:13 PM »

I will I'm sure have a go at go as it's no penalty to change but quite happy with the prices on agile and no disturbance to how we live. SWMBO is a good egg but only so far. Smiley

Maybe try go when I buy an EV. Apart from the 4 hours at 5p what is the rate on go?

Benefits of Go vs agile:
  • Known prices/times, you can set and forget your battery charge/discharge times, as well as other stuff (eg your EV, immersion, etc.).
  • No afternoon peak. If you're on Agile you REALLY need to ensure you're using no grid power between 1530 and 1930.

Obviously everyone is different you need to figure out what is right for you.
« Last Edit: February 26, 2020, 01:43:29 PM by kdmnx » Logged

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« Reply #35 on: February 26, 2020, 03:06:19 PM »

Agile also has a lower standing charge than Go by about £1.20 a month. It all adds up!
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« Reply #36 on: February 29, 2020, 04:52:09 PM »

I will I'm sure have a go at go as it's no penalty to change but quite happy with the prices on agile and no disturbance to how we live. SWMBO is a good egg but only so far. Smiley

Maybe try go when I buy an EV. Apart from the 4 hours at 5p what is the rate on go?

Benefits of Go vs agile:
  • Known prices/times, you can set and forget your battery charge/discharge times, as well as other stuff (eg your EV, immersion, etc.).
  • No afternoon peak. If you're on Agile you REALLY need to ensure you're using no grid power between 1530 and 1930.

Obviously everyone is different you need to figure out what is right for you.

Agreed. In 9 months, I have flipped from Go to Agile; to Go Faster, and now back to Agile. Agile is working well for me at the moment but this is partly due to the unusually windy conditions. There is a learning curve with Agile but even my wife now looks at the daily Agile prices before putting the dishwasher on etc.

As an aside, there is an article in today's DT about Agile.
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