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Author Topic: Proven 6kw Turbine performance decreasing  (Read 8595 times)
Robert Jurs
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« on: February 22, 2020, 03:33:04 PM »

We have a Proven 6kw wind turbine comissioned back in 2010. It has been decreasing in yearly output ever since. It peaked in 2011 with about 6500kw but in 2019 it was down to 2800kwh.
Data is public here:
https://www.sunnyportal.com/Templates/PublicPage.aspx?page=36209a41-ace0-4ec6-b6f5-14e3053f2691

There have been regular service with lubrication and checking that everything looks OK. All done according to the service manual.
Is it really to be expected to see these kind of declining numbers over time?

We have had some really stormy days the last couple of weeks, with wind speed up towards 17m/s, and the turbine never got over 3500watt peak output. Whereas back in the days a year or two after comission we regulary saw peaks at the rated max at 6000watt.
It is hard to be sure, but blades seem to rotate just as fast now as they back then.

So I am trying to find out if there is something that can be done to bring it back to the performance of its glory days:)
Do any of you know of issues that can cause this kind of decline?

It was latest serviced in summer 2017, where we saw that the slip rings were a bit used, so we sanded them down so they were shiny again.

Before service:


After service:


All help, info and suggestions are appreciated.
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oliver90owner
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« Reply #1 on: February 22, 2020, 03:47:48 PM »

First off, what is the greenery behind those pics?  10 years of growth can quite easily affect the turbulence and wind speed.
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Countrypaul
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« Reply #2 on: February 22, 2020, 03:49:12 PM »

I know very little about wind turbines, but my first reaction was to wonder if it a 3 phase generator and has one phase gone down for whatever reason? can you check what each phase is producing before it gets rectified? (assuming that is how it works).  This assumes that your correct in your observation that the blades are turning as fast as they always did!
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heatherhopper
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« Reply #3 on: February 22, 2020, 04:18:17 PM »

Certainly something amiss for a few years. Should be at peak in anything around 10m/s or higher. If you have a service engineer, have they not given an opinion?
A bit more information about the complete set-up would be good otherwise everything is just speculation.
eg -
Presumably grid-tied?
Interface (rectification) original standard Proven?
Inverter(s) model?
Service history (any renewed/refurbished components)?
Wind speed records (preferably at something nearer head height rather than ground)?
Any more photos of the head?
etc
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Off grid AC coupled, 6kW Proven, 2.8kW PV, SMA SI/SB/WB Inverters, 4x576ah Rolls batteries @ 24v, 25kW Biomass Boiler, Wood Stoves, Spring/Well water. Sorry planet - I did try.
biff
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« Reply #4 on: February 22, 2020, 06:06:04 PM »

I am guessing but I think Paul will say ,
      That the springs and dampers on the blades, need to be replaced,
                     Biff
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Philip R
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« Reply #5 on: February 22, 2020, 09:05:59 PM »

If it is fitted with a permanent magnet generator, my huch is that the magnets in the PMG may have demagnetised. or the laminated poles may have rusted between the laminations, thus reducing the flux in the magnetic circuit.

Do you have design open circuit voltage figures for a given RPM, also short circuit current values too.

Philip R
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camillitech
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« Reply #6 on: February 22, 2020, 09:27:33 PM »

Methinks Oliver has 'hit the nail on the head', waaay tooo much greenery, time to get the chainsaw out  Grin Sure, it would probably benefit from a new spring set and blades too, that would certainly improve production but I'd deal with the shrubbery first.

 

Good luck, Paul
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http://lifeattheendoftheroad.wordpress.com/

'Off grid' since 1985,  Proven 2.5kW, Proven 6kW direct heating, SMA SI6.OH, 800ah Rolls, 9kW PV ,4xTS45, Lister HR2 12kW, , Powerspout pelton, Stream Engine turgo, 60 x Navitron toobs and a 1500lt store. Outback VFX3048 and 950ah forklifts for backup,
Greenbeast
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« Reply #7 on: February 23, 2020, 07:52:01 AM »

Methinks Oliver has 'hit the nail on the head', waaay tooo much greenery, time to get the chainsaw out  Grin Sure, it would probably benefit from a new spring set and blades too, that would certainly improve production but I'd deal with the shrubbery first.

 

Good luck, Paul

What is the effect of obstructions downwind of a turbine?
Still turbulence but much less? Any x'H'  figures for that scenario?
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camillitech
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« Reply #8 on: February 23, 2020, 07:58:58 AM »

Dunno GB but it's only 'downwind' when the wind is blowing towards the object and whilst it may not have as much influence on production from certain directions it will cause excessive yawing and wear from others. Hard to quantify these things really  fingers crossed!

Good luck, Paul
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http://lifeattheendoftheroad.wordpress.com/

'Off grid' since 1985,  Proven 2.5kW, Proven 6kW direct heating, SMA SI6.OH, 800ah Rolls, 9kW PV ,4xTS45, Lister HR2 12kW, , Powerspout pelton, Stream Engine turgo, 60 x Navitron toobs and a 1500lt store. Outback VFX3048 and 950ah forklifts for backup,
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« Reply #9 on: February 23, 2020, 08:09:11 AM »

Dunno GB but it's only 'downwind' when the wind is blowing towards the object and whilst it may not have as much influence on production from certain directions it will cause excessive yawing and wear from others. Hard to quantify these things really  fingers crossed!

Good luck, Paul

Ok, back to the scenario in the image, is the jist that you should stay at 2H between the obstacle and 20H (or thereabouts)?
So if i can't get more than 4-5H away from trees in some directions i should default to 2H high?
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camillitech
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« Reply #10 on: February 23, 2020, 08:21:20 AM »

I 'think' that sounds reasonable GB but by far the best (only method really) is to put an anemometer up at hub height on the site.

Good luck, Paul
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http://lifeattheendoftheroad.wordpress.com/

'Off grid' since 1985,  Proven 2.5kW, Proven 6kW direct heating, SMA SI6.OH, 800ah Rolls, 9kW PV ,4xTS45, Lister HR2 12kW, , Powerspout pelton, Stream Engine turgo, 60 x Navitron toobs and a 1500lt store. Outback VFX3048 and 950ah forklifts for backup,
oliver90owner
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« Reply #11 on: February 23, 2020, 08:33:38 AM »

As per that diagram, the whole rotor ideally needs to be out of any turbulence or reduced air flow.  I wonder how the kite would fly if it was dragged down into the turbulent airflow?
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Robert Jurs
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« Reply #12 on: February 23, 2020, 11:33:36 AM »

First of all. Thank you all for the quick responses. I will try to give som more information about the setup.

System info:
Proven P11 6kW turbine
Mounted on 15 meters tower
Permanent magnet 300V DC (afeter rectifier I assume)
I dont know the make of the Recitfier, but it was mounted by the company who delivered the turbine in 2010.
Inverter is SMA WindyBoy 6000A
It is grid-tied to 220 volt

Service info:
Year 2010-2013 it was services yearly on service agreement from company.
There was some issues with noise from spings and bearings, so they eventually replaced the entire head, and wings in 2011.
From 2013 to 2017 there was no service.
Last service in 2017 was done by myself (non-professional). No parts were replaced.

Pictures of grid-tied installation:


Rectifier turbine isolation box:


Pictures from last service in 2017:
All springs were more os less fine, they were all tightened according to specifications.

Springs all look like this:


Rotor axel bearing1:


Rotor axel bearing2:


Yaw bearing:


Generator wheel and magnets:




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Robert Jurs
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« Reply #13 on: February 23, 2020, 11:58:33 AM »

Now regarding the placement and surrounding greenery. You are right, there actually is some small forest/greenery that was planted around same time as the turbine was built.

Today it is about 4-5 meters tall. As shown here in the picture, it is located to the west of the turbine:


Also there is a barn/hall/building slightly the to north-east. Hieght of this is about 7 meters.
Picture from construction in 2017. Picture is taken directly from South direction:


Google Maps:
https://www.google.com/maps/@55.5162614,12.0511463,200m/data=!3m1!1e3

So an areal view as good as I can do it. Picture is shown in correct North/south direction:

The turbine is represented by the white star  Grin
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Robert Jurs
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« Reply #14 on: February 23, 2020, 12:14:46 PM »

I understand that the greenery might have some effects on output as it generates some turbulence. This can also be observed when wind is blowing from the West, and the East.
West is obstructed by the 5 meters of trees, and the East by the barn, and maybe even the main house.
We see a lot of yaw turning when wind is coming from these directions.
So I know this is not a valid point for comparing.

However when we have wind from North or the South it is pretty stabel. Not a lot of yaw turning.
The last 2-3 weeks have been wind more or less straight from the South (14-18 m/s), which is the direction that seems least obstructed, so this is where I do my comparisons.

The greenery to the south is probably around 70 meters away. And it is at lower. Ground terrain is 2-3 meter lower than foot of the turbine tower.

Note:
Buildings have always been there since commission in 2010. So I think that can be left out as a factor.
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