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Author Topic: E-scooters go on trial in Middlesbrough.  (Read 570 times)
stannn
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« on: July 04, 2020, 07:36:23 AM »

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2020/jul/03/e-scooters-go-on-trial-in-middlesbrough-to-aid-uks-green-recovery
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« Reply #1 on: July 10, 2020, 10:19:20 PM »

The Smoggies will go whats this, and chuck them in the River Tees.
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MR GUS
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« Reply #2 on: August 11, 2020, 03:02:47 PM »

Will have to pop into cambridge proper to see if they are there yet.

I'm hearing the same BS argument about "not hearing them" (as was touted about EV's with the idiots helpfully ignoring the fact that these aren't back to the future floating hoverboards (which also made sound) & so there is inevitably sound of tyres connected with the road & stones pinging everywhere, as well as motor whine, i'm deaf yet I heard them. (riding cobbles though, ..oy vey).

Adding more sound is not technically a problem to future production units just like it isn't with electric cars.

What I don't get though...

"Privately-owned e-scooters cannot be legally ridden on the roads because they don't always have visible rear red lights, number plates or signalling ability" yet this has been ignored (bar a pretty much standard front & rear led on hire vehicles) ..I didn't see any number plates on German hire fleets which makes them technically as illegal in argument as a privately owned one, ..yet big companies are as usual getting away with this whereas a private owner cannot, ...that is surely akin to brown paper bag business operations of fifa / the olympic committee !?

It also means it is harder for folk to utilise  an e-scooter except as a long term rental (if you want to go through the courts & try countering that when stopped by the cops) ..except for the well heeled, well connected well off (naturally).

Also, (the govt will love) the "necessary" tracking data that you'd not exactly have with privately owned e-scooter, ..the big problem I had in Berlin was that my purposely  limited phone tracking had to be opened up to use any scooter, & connectivity / lack thereof & signal drop (iron bridge) meant I paid out several euro extra because I simply could not dock the bike & had to move around (& spot a sensible parking area) elsewhere, when the journey was technically over.

I'd look into buying one on a "long term rental" to get round the issues of "company only" legality (with it being signed over to me at the end of a scheme).

But as is I wonder how much of the "green recovery money" is simply funneling out of the country in guise of a test run to businesses who want a foothold & domination.
Yes they are handy but to be frank unless you read the government blurb you don't even know whether you are allowed to ride on a path section that is designated as cycle path compared to "path path" & i'd be pretty jarred & tempted to spit in a coppers face (metaphorically speaking) if they targeted a e-scooter user who was demonstrating care & caution on a path if the same copper was ignoring cars parked up half on pavements & facing the wrong way as to direction of the side of the road they were half on.

Here's the government "guidance" if you wish to read up on apparent rules  fingers crossed!

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/e-scooter-trials-guidance-for-local-areas-and-rental-operators/e-scooter-trials-guidance-for-local-areas-and-rental-operators#eligibility-and-dft-trial-requirements

At the end of the day I don't think anyone on these in the uk has any choice other than to be careful based on uk road state  (pot-holes) alone ..i've been taken down on bigger wheels than a scooter.
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« Reply #3 on: August 11, 2020, 06:37:51 PM »

So, Voi (Swedish company) have an interesting page..

https://www.voiscooters.com/how-to-voi/

Laying out reduced speed (automatically) parking zones etc...

Also unlike lime in europe they are requiring *cough* you to be 18 or over to use their kit.

Lime in Germany require you to be 14+ it was recently amended.

If we rely on folks honesty then figures for vandalism, accidents & the like are going to be heavily skewed as folk tick boxes on an age compliance (& provisional / full license).

The International Transport Forum (ITF) published a report in February 2020 entitled ‘Safe Micromobility’, which compared the safety of electric scooters with other vehicles. The report includes electric scooters in its definition of ‘Type A micro-vehicle’ due to their low weight and top speed of less than 15.5mph, and states,

“A trip by car or by motorcycle in a dense urban area is much more likely to result in the death of a road user – this includes pedestrians – than a trip by a Type A micro-vehicle. A modal shift from motor vehicles towards Type A micro-vehicles can thus make a city safer.”

The report goes on to state that a road fatality is not significantly more likely when using an e-scooter rather than a bicycle, and the risk of an emergency department visit for an e-scooter rider is similar to that for cyclists.

Among the 10 recommendations the ITF makes, the report suggests that street layouts could be altered to make urban traffic with micromobility vehicles safer, along with suggestions for safer vehicle design and operation.
« Last Edit: August 11, 2020, 08:00:50 PM by MR GUS » Logged

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« Reply #4 on: August 12, 2020, 06:21:30 AM »

There is one riding the mean streets of Kidwelly the chap riding it was 20/30 ish. Looks a lot of fun not sure what happens if those little wheels hit a Welsh pothole  surrender
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« Reply #5 on: August 12, 2020, 07:46:52 AM »

I have hired one of these off the street in Gothenburgh and i have nothing but praise.  They must be safest form of transport with power.  More safe than electric bikes and mobility scooters.  At worst you can just jump off and throw the scooter down.

I guess the problem could be when there are large numbers of them.  I think they should be kept to the roads and preferably cycle lanes marked with direction of travel as per bycycles (of all ages)  and even horse riders (of all ages)
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« Reply #6 on: August 12, 2020, 02:57:27 PM »

I would not be worried about those on (or falling off) the scooters - it is other road/pavement users that are at risk from idiots using them inconsiderately/illegally (speeding or no insurance, for examples).
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« Reply #7 on: August 12, 2020, 06:55:16 PM »

No different from running the gauntlet with non insured drivers of any kind then (plenty of ICE in that position).

Plus most cylists et al come under home insurance as standard, some obviously get specialist insurance.

Some of these schemes under uk set up for scooters might have insurance (the govt asked them to but didn't make it mandatory).

In the uk (again) under this test scheme riders are meant to have at least a provisional license for the hire use. ...beyond that is yet to be hammered out.

I don't mind insurance, I do mind a monopoly that only allows me to rent from a bunch of big companies, ..any scooter I bought would not be littering the street 24/7 & picked up by a petrol / diesel van slamming its doors late at night, ..& dropping off again early in the morning. ((infrastructure)).

I don't think councils outside of a few areas will want these as it will up their liability for claims against pot holes & smashed up faces even further.

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« Reply #8 on: August 12, 2020, 07:02:23 PM »

NB "registration" plates.

There is enough room over the back wheel cover / press down brake to fit a small rear facing fold out plate id, (better than nothing & too big is a potential liability) ...however a target for being kicked off by kids & vandals with a kids mindset ..something else the police wouldn't want to follow up in any shape or form.

(generally scooters are preodominantly aluminium, so a strong magnet to mount a pocketable reg plate is out of the question).
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« Reply #9 on: August 13, 2020, 10:13:45 AM »

Im seeing more of these around where I live. I can only assume the MSM reports of trials has made everyone feel immune from prosecution and the police probably have much more to do now lockdown is relaxed and all the toe rags are out making up for lost income. I saw a scooter yesterday on the road with two teenages on it !.
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« Reply #10 on: August 13, 2020, 01:24:13 PM »

Yes, the covid emergency powers allow for a softening of law, however they don't make clear, (typically) so it's all in the throw of the dice when encountering plod.
(always was, but more so now).  facepalm.

2 up is stupid on a scooter, but then again "humans"
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« Reply #11 on: August 13, 2020, 07:44:12 PM »

I cannot understand the govenrment not making Public Liability insurance mandatory. OK it's the government, blindingly obvious never was their strong point.

You only have to be the one person who gets hit, suffer a life changing injury that prevents you from working and potentially your life is ruined for no fault of your own.
If the 'risk' to claims is so negligible, then the cost of PLI for cycles, electric bikes, invalid carts etc should be no more than an admin charge; especially if you already have motor or home insurance and it can be added as a supplementary clause.
Lots of home insurance policies offer bike theft as a supplement, but I'm not sure if the same policy covers PLI when riding a bike/scooter.

The same argument applies the other way around. If a rider were to have a collision with a pedestrian that causes the pedestrian to instigate a private prosecution to get compensation, the rider would surely wish they had paid (or had the option of) a £10 annual premium rather than potentially losing their house to pay the compo...
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« Reply #12 on: August 13, 2020, 10:30:52 PM »

I know what you mean Antman, it only takes a few high profile cases (or the death of one "you tuber") on an e-bike / scooter to delay common sense (maybe forever, maybe of 5 yeaRs worth of data gathering) ..because of cack press promoting a story to the max (Daily fail laying off BTW ..so they'll be more desperate than ever for clicks).

Also, bad  / confused press / govt "insight" will *possibly* give rise to compulsory insurance in a single scheme as "part of registration" of e-mobility ..splunking cash through a likely govt favoured company as a license to print more cash until it is countered & at great public cost deemed a monopoly (or more likely a monopoly of 3 to rake cash in till the investigation into unfair practise is adjusted.

If anyone can cite me a handful of fairly minded insurance plans for e-mobility liability(focus on e-scooters as the odd man out in comparison to ebikes & disability 3 & 4 wheel scooters) i'd be interested to take a good look through the blurb, but likely "data not in yet".

Would anyone like to guess at automatic liability insurance costs per year?  ....the govt ((any govt))  is desperate for more taxes after all as well as accounting for losses on propped up private services answering to the share holders (national express et al)...which would naturally be padded out rather than told you bid for it you deal with it (change).

& if automatic insurance came in then I can see it channelling down to other forms of transport too, ie taxing the humble bike (well london is only BEV / hybrid 4x4 tax exempt for another 5  !? years right) ? ..I only saw hybrids last time I was there.

NB excuse me rantwise i've been supporting local amenities tonight (the pub)  signofcross

« Last Edit: August 13, 2020, 10:33:54 PM by MR GUS » Logged

Austroflamm stove & lot's of Lowe alpine fleeces, A "finger" of Solar Sad
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