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Author Topic: Luxury car tax, what is it & how do you see it evolving?  (Read 640 times)
todthedog
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« Reply #15 on: September 16, 2020, 06:59:37 AM »

Gus,
Peter Stringfellow popped his clogs a couple of years back. Ooops.
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Bugtownboy
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« Reply #16 on: September 16, 2020, 07:14:53 AM »

Slightly off topic, but is it not time the VED is replaced by increasing tax on fuel - the more miles/miles per gallon you do or CO2/particulates you produce, the more you pay ?

Wouldnít easily fit with BEVís though.
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kdmnx
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« Reply #17 on: September 16, 2020, 07:38:20 AM »

Slightly off topic, but is it not time the VED is replaced by increasing tax on fuel - the more miles/miles per gallon you do or CO2/particulates you produce, the more you pay ?

Wouldnít easily fit with BEVís though.

Iíve been saying that for years! I cannot imagine how much VED costs to collect and enforce. Adding a penny or two to fuel duty would be an easier way raise money and penalise fossil fuel use.
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smegal
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« Reply #18 on: September 16, 2020, 08:58:44 AM »


I beg to differ.
At the beginning of August, my daughter had downloaded a video using my phone ( I thought it was using wifi) and went over my monthly allowance.  Google still managed to provide a timeline showing where I went in August, even though I had turned mobile data off until the next charging period started.  Not everything on it but enough to know that some monitoring is going on.

Surely it just synced when you were on wifi?
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« Reply #19 on: September 16, 2020, 09:27:58 AM »

I can imagine a version of pay as you go road pricing in the future that goes something like this

- your car logs your mileage, but also time of journey (is it peak/off peak) and location (is it on the M6 or back-street traffic crawling)
- there's a "correction" factor for what fuel you use to power the vehicle.  Diesel is more, BEVs are less - but not zero as you're still contributing to road wear, congestion, and local pollution through tyre degregation etc
- you then get a monthly charge based upon the miles you've driven, where you've driven, when, and with what.


The tech is there now. I seem to recall it's already law (EU, oh well)  that all new cars are to have an emergency SIM card which dials the emergency services in the event of a traffic accident?  And it would be very easy to mandate all new cars to have GPS and away you go.



Slightly off topic, but is it not time the VED is replaced by increasing tax on fuel - the more miles/miles per gallon you do or CO2/particulates you produce, the more you pay ?

Wouldnít easily fit with BEVís though.
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Countrypaul
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« Reply #20 on: September 16, 2020, 09:33:42 AM »

Why not just base VED on weight, as has been mentioned many times a lightweight car is all that is needed for most purposes.  Doesn't metter then whether it is ICE, Electric (Batt, Fuel Cell, other), steam powered or something else. If its a BEV and you add more batteries then like changing the engine in an ICE you'd have to inform DVLA. VED could be say fixed for upto 1000Kg, then say £1 extra for each 10 Kg 1001-2000 and £1 per Kg over 2000. That way all the unnessary Chelsea tractors would be encouraged to really think about what they need. A discount for buinesses that need a larger vehicle (eg. transit type van) might be claimable on the company's tax return.
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Bugtownboy
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« Reply #21 on: September 16, 2020, 10:02:54 AM »

Surely, if you just did it on weight it doesnít reflect usage - if there is any commitment to reducing emissions, there has to be a system that does this ?

Also, if usage was logged- time of use, type of road etc, thereíd be no need for speed cameras - your speed would be constantly logged against location  police
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dan_b
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« Reply #22 on: September 16, 2020, 10:10:25 AM »

Exactly, just based on weight is meaningless if it doesn't also reflect usage. 
You could of course add vehicle weight into the calculation on location, fuel type and time of journey.

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Countrypaul
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« Reply #23 on: September 16, 2020, 12:23:23 PM »

I was still assuming that the taxes on petroleum fuels would remain, but for BEVs I agree more difficult enless you track usage - could be retrospective ie. you pay based on milage recorded during MOT or when you sell the vehicle (or anytime you want before then if you want to avoid a sudden shock, £x/month and balance at MOT/vehicle sale)
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azps
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« Reply #24 on: September 16, 2020, 12:55:43 PM »

I was still assuming that the taxes on petroleum fuels would remain, but for BEVs I agree more difficult enless you track usage - could be retrospective ie. you pay based on milage recorded during MOT or when you sell the vehicle (or anytime you want before then if you want to avoid a sudden shock, £x/month and balance at MOT/vehicle sale)

It's useful to start from the theoretical perspective: what's the problem that we want to fix? First identify the problems that drivers are causing. Then price those.

For the problem of pollution, tax the polluting fuels.

For the problem of hogging street space when parked, make parking prices reflect how much space is hogged, for how long, and how scarce the supply is.

For the problem of big menacing vehicles just being present on the street, tax their purchase and ownership.

For the problem of damage to roads, tax by (something like) the 4th power of axle weight - there's a study on the relationship, but if I remember right, it's something like the 4th power. So doubling axle weight causes 16 times the damage.

As for where the public money comes from as fuel duty revenue drops to zero, that's a much bigger discussion. It doesn't have to come from transport at all, in the future.
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