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Author Topic: Public perception of EV generally, ...see thread  (Read 381 times)
MR GUS
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« on: September 15, 2020, 08:59:21 AM »

Firstly, I deem an EV a renewable resource on wheels, (some may not)
Secondly this thread shows how much public perception remains daily fail reportage 2010 -2015.

I have been witness to folks happy to look at a hybrid SUV with a piffling battery but won't go near a BEV ..the bevs have clearly been in the naughty corner & everyone has been told to ignore them (inc salesmen).

Suggest you try reading it without clawing at your eyes, nor despairing at "humanity" outside of our "bubble"!?
In the wider scheme of things clearly your Li-ion batteries are all going to be sitting out for the bin men in less than 3 years & you'll be pulling a redundant EV with a pony & trap   hysteria.

People appear not to understand that hydrogen stations would be the new oil exploitation & that prices for processed water would lead us back in some ways to ransom per litre as they saw fit to profitably charge ..or cut the supply, compared to charging at home / offsetting via solar if you have room.

Others see  public posts as blasphemy that will likely cause more ructions if their "traditional parking spot ...on *their* road" becomes an ev bay

Context: a lease deal for a Smart for four on a deal site.

https://www.hotukdeals.com/deals/smart-forfour-prime-exclusive-eq-fully-electric-vehicle-3542589?page=2#thread-comments

« Last Edit: September 15, 2020, 09:05:58 AM by MR GUS » Logged

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« Reply #1 on: September 15, 2020, 09:19:15 AM »

I LOVE THEM!
I would..... I develop the BEV vehicles for JLR. So the I Pace and the new XJ (all I can talk about at the min).

There is a HUGE problem with the lack of standards! Safety standards in regard to accidents, charging standards where yes there is a set but people dont adhere to them so some cars work work on some stations and others will.
The charging time I see as a non issue as I sleep for 10 hours a day and with 350kw chargers here with liquid cooled cables, wow! Its the range, Id like 500 miles so people dot worry about having to charge on a motorway service station on the way home from XYZ, that puts many people off including my Mrs.
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« Reply #2 on: September 15, 2020, 09:37:43 AM »

I have no interest in cars and only looks at cars when one is required.
I have no interest in going to multiple sales rooms and speaking to salespeople.
Iím not interested in auctions.
Itís easier to look on line and pick something.
I imagine thatís like most people.



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MR GUS
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« Reply #3 on: September 15, 2020, 10:03:11 AM »

Well TT, I don't actually like cars either, I hate them, but that's not the majority view, especially in a country where cars are designed atypically macho.

Many of the problems caused by cars / big road vehicles is a result of the drop off by kids to use mopeds, push bikes etc, ..thus parents buy a car "it's safer" & add to the problem of dominant road species (almost).

Living in the country I have to use cars.
Living in the city I may not have a place to park a car so will hog the road blocking proper flow & moan that I cannot have an EV as I live in a city with no plug access.
When i've used public transport in the country, it has been wet / hot / delayed / broken down ..but mostly on a torturous long route that necessitates a 1 hour plus journey for 15 minutes by car.

Living in the city i've had my bike (locked, stripped bare)
Living in the country i've had my bike stolen/
Living in the country & the city i've had many close calls with ICE vehicles trying to ride responsibly.
Living in the country i've had plenty of people damage a car & not give a damn to make good.

But the thread isn't about that, it sadly highlights outside of a renewables / clean tech minded bubble of people the great british publics not so diverse state of mind re tech & their general resistance to it.

Even the ITV piece from the other week (a full 20+ minutes minus the ads) failed in terms of accurate detail, becoming a grey area puff piece.

So much work to be done & not much of it by the government, it is a soundbite of our A.D 2020 times that got stuck circa 2015 ..somewhat explaining uptake / lack thereof.
On twitter I used to follow (not because I agreed with their views) but to see what they were saying & oft misinforming, ...this came to a sad end when I kept getting "suggested" people  / groups to follow ..that & with recent changes to "intelligence" you'd have some spod from counter terrorism shining a light in your face & accusing you of being "a bad un"
Twitter advertising in my timeline would try & flog me shoes that were patently ridiculous on many fronts, ..my wide feet, my aversion to shopping without seeing if I deem it good enough quality to do the job over & over whilst not feeling like a lead weight / so light it may as well have not had soles (etc).

I cannot get an idea for shoe width, comfort & construction quality online, nor can I achieve that properly without at least checking out a car in person.
Do you intend to buy property in that manner also?  chocolateteapot

Maybe also stop reading certain types of subject related threads / news pieces that you wish to ignore also?


« Last Edit: September 15, 2020, 10:20:04 AM by MR GUS » Logged

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« Reply #4 on: September 15, 2020, 10:48:30 AM »

Mr Gus, houses arenít cars so different rules apply, likewise with shoes..... letís stick to cars.....

I was highlighting the view that not everyone is interested in cars, spending days driving around looking for another car etc etc.
I was able to see the car I liked, the warranty offer etc, bought online and it was delivered to my place of work, drive away, 85,000 miles later still doing the A to B thing..




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« Reply #5 on: September 15, 2020, 11:13:21 AM »

Isnít it more to do with the perception of car ownership ? For many itís a status symbol/flag of wealth - for me, a car is a tool, either to get from A-B or as a shifter of building materials (16 year old Volvo V70 ) or Ďstuffí.

Credit has so distorted car ownership.

EVís are already disrupting the market; perhaps theyíll disrupt perception of vehicle ownership and its relationship to public transport - when we do get to autonomous vehicles.

I hope this could be one benefit of Coronavirus, if significant numbers of people WFH in the future, maybe reducing the need for a significant number of vehicles.
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MR GUS
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« Reply #6 on: September 15, 2020, 11:31:03 AM »

Mr Gus, houses arenít cars so different rules apply, likewise with shoes..... letís stick to cars.....

I was highlighting the view that not everyone is interested in cars, spending days driving around looking for another car etc etc.
I was able to see the car I liked, the warranty offer etc, bought online and it was delivered to my place of work, drive away, 85,000 miles later still doing the A to B thing..






Bull, if you want to make sure you aren't kicking yourself with your own foot later (maybe in a floppy soled boot even) then you want to be sure of quality as much for a small item as a large one that costs thousands, thru hundreds of thousands, ..automobiles & property typically being the upper amounts within anyone's lives.

Like I said , I'm NOT interested in cars, but some threads reflect my experience (& doubtless others) ...& think spaffing cash needlessly (car design that gets neglected at point of sale is bone headed.

& fact is I have to utilise them so at the very least I on't want to be glaring at it daily like a peeved cat staring at a new shed where his favourite sun patch once stood.

If that isn't anywhere near to approaching your reasoning then spaff cash up a wall by all means.

Note please, we haven't spent days, we've dropped in when we were passing, so maybe 5 minutes, here 20 minutes there, utilising as per thread) showrooms that were next to each other, (2 one stop & 3 on another) otherwise needless mileage that go's against our normal habits.

With regards to your dig about auctions, it is relevant within the process of EV & public battery longevity mistrust that rental battery units at the other end of things are failing to sell compared with being sold as a good thing to rent at the other it actually serves to promote the misconception of battery life & leaves an item no-one wants to touch.

Funnily enough the much older battery owned 1st gen Ions whizz through!
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Austroflamm stove & lot's of Lowe alpine fleeces, A "finger" of Solar Sad
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MR GUS
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« Reply #7 on: September 15, 2020, 11:34:42 AM »

+1 Bugtownboy.

Consumer credit traps on the eternal cycle.
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dan_b
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« Reply #8 on: September 15, 2020, 11:41:14 AM »

Interesting - what part of the development programme are you involved in - is it the BEV drivetrain?

I do wonder if JLR considers the iPace to be a success?   Has it sold well enough?  Since it came out, the BEV market has moved quite a lot, and the iPace looks pretty expensive compared to others?   Although I guess most people buying an iPace will be doing so instead of buying an ICE-powered SUV?   What's the timescale for the new XJ EV? 

Any clues as to what on earth is going on in the Land Rover part of JLR though - vomiting out ever larger SUVs with ICE power trains and seemingly no plan for any BEV?



I LOVE THEM!
I would..... I develop the BEV vehicles for JLR. So the I Pace and the new XJ (all I can talk about at the min).

There is a HUGE problem with the lack of standards! Safety standards in regard to accidents, charging standards where yes there is a set but people dont adhere to them so some cars work work on some stations and others will.
The charging time I see as a non issue as I sleep for 10 hours a day and with 350kw chargers here with liquid cooled cables, wow! Its the range, Id like 500 miles so people dot worry about having to charge on a motorway service station on the way home from XYZ, that puts many people off including my Mrs.

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Bikerzz
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« Reply #9 on: September 15, 2020, 11:58:38 AM »

Im the 12V SME (Subject matter expert), so I own the 12V System, but clearly very linked to the HV with a DCDC etc....

The I pace was deemed the first premium SUV and thus a success in that way. It does have its reliability issues and I will be first to admit that (Typical JLR), but remember on all independent studies its still twice as reliable as a Tesla (I hate Tesla's build and quality).

New XJ is due out end of 2021, I was due to have a later prototype as my Wedding car in Feb 2021 tho thats looking unlikely after covid slowed the world down.
JLR is fully onboard with BEVs and there will be a lot of PHEVs and BEVs coming, for example today we released the PHEV F Pace. 2.0Turbo 400PS 33miles on the PHEV.
Large BEVs will follow the XJ I promise you!
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« Reply #10 on: September 15, 2020, 12:30:45 PM »

Mr Gus, houses arenít cars so different rules apply, likewise with shoes..... letís stick to cars.....

I was highlighting the view that not everyone is interested in cars, spending days driving around looking for another car etc etc.
I was able to see the car I liked, the warranty offer etc, bought online and it was delivered to my place of work, drive away, 85,000 miles later still doing the A to B thing..






Bull, if you want to make sure you aren't kicking yourself with your own foot later (maybe in a floppy soled boot even) then you want to be sure of quality as much for a small item as a large one that costs thousands, thru hundreds of thousands, ..automobiles & property typically being the upper amounts within anyone's lives.

Like I said , I'm NOT interested in cars, but some threads reflect my experience (& doubtless others) ...& think spaffing cash needlessly (car design that gets neglected at point of sale is bone headed.

& fact is I have to utilise them so at the very least I on't want to be glaring at it daily like a peeved cat staring at a new shed where his favourite sun patch once stood.

If that isn't anywhere near to approaching your reasoning then spaff cash up a wall by all means.

Note please, we haven't spent days, we've dropped in when we were passing, so maybe 5 minutes, here 20 minutes there, utilising as per thread) showrooms that were next to each other, (2 one stop & 3 on another) otherwise needless mileage that go's against our normal habits.

With regards to your dig about auctions, it is relevant within the process of EV & public battery longevity mistrust that rental battery units at the other end of things are failing to sell compared with being sold as a good thing to rent at the other it actually serves to promote the misconception of battery life & leaves an item no-one wants to touch.

Funnily enough the much older battery owned 1st gen Ions whizz through!


Hi Mr Gus,
I wasn't having a dig at auctions, merely that I wasn't interested in buying cars form them, not knowing anything about cars, I wouldn't feel comfortable buying from an auction.
Not sure why as you says its 'bull', but lets leave it there.
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« Reply #11 on: September 15, 2020, 01:07:56 PM »

A lot of people turn their head when we go whistling past. Also a lot watch when plugging in at ev stations etc BUT people as a general rule fear change and a large percentage of the population wouldn't walk the length of themselves if it was to their advantage. Initial outlay coupled with perceived  limited mileage will make it an ongoing & uphill struggle I think.
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« Reply #12 on: September 15, 2020, 01:16:28 PM »

A lot of people turn their head when we go whistling past. Also a lot watch when plugging in at ev stations etc BUT people as a general rule fear change and a large percentage of the population wouldn't walk the length of themselves if it was to their advantage. Initial outlay coupled with perceived  limited mileage will make it an ongoing & uphill struggle I think.

Nail..... Head!
People are lazy. People hate change.
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« Reply #13 on: September 15, 2020, 01:32:13 PM »

Nice info thanks.
Yes it certainly was the first of the European e-SUVs  - the Model X has an eye-watering price tag so certainly counts as "premium" in my book, but fully aware that Tesla is not to everyone's tastes (and nor should it be) - now that there is the eTron and the EQC as well I wonder if Jag has lost sales to those - or are iPace buyers pretty much loyal Jag customers anway?   

Have you checked out a Tesla 3 - it's a different league build-wise to the S/X platform.



Im the 12V SME (Subject matter expert), so I own the 12V System, but clearly very linked to the HV with a DCDC etc....

The I pace was deemed the first premium SUV and thus a success in that way. It does have its reliability issues and I will be first to admit that (Typical JLR), but remember on all independent studies its still twice as reliable as a Tesla (I hate Tesla's build and quality).

New XJ is due out end of 2021, I was due to have a later prototype as my Wedding car in Feb 2021 tho thats looking unlikely after covid slowed the world down.
JLR is fully onboard with BEVs and there will be a lot of PHEVs and BEVs coming, for example today we released the PHEV F Pace. 2.0Turbo 400PS 33miles on the PHEV.
Large BEVs will follow the XJ I promise you!
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Bikerzz
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« Reply #14 on: September 15, 2020, 01:46:35 PM »

Nice info thanks.
Yes it certainly was the first of the European e-SUVs  - the Model X has an eye-watering price tag so certainly counts as "premium" in my book, but fully aware that Tesla is not to everyone's tastes (and nor should it be) - now that there is the eTron and the EQC as well I wonder if Jag has lost sales to those - or are iPace buyers pretty much loyal Jag customers anway?    

Have you checked out a Tesla 3 - it's a different league build-wise to the S/X platform.



Im the 12V SME (Subject matter expert), so I own the 12V System, but clearly very linked to the HV with a DCDC etc....

The I pace was deemed the first premium SUV and thus a success in that way. It does have its reliability issues and I will be first to admit that (Typical JLR), but remember on all independent studies its still twice as reliable as a Tesla (I hate Tesla's build and quality).

New XJ is due out end of 2021, I was due to have a later prototype as my Wedding car in Feb 2021 tho thats looking unlikely after covid slowed the world down.
JLR is fully onboard with BEVs and there will be a lot of PHEVs and BEVs coming, for example today we released the PHEV F Pace. 2.0Turbo 400PS 33miles on the PHEV.
Large BEVs will follow the XJ I promise you!

We have a fleet of Tesla's so yes have driven and stripped down them all. We also have a private test track!
We do have VERY loyal customers which is great. The Jag is a nicer place to be than any Tesla, though the Tesla maybe more toys (Id call them gimmicks tho TBH). The Model 3 wiring is TERRIBLE, honestly you could make a better loom in your garage, hence all the rattles and squeak issues they have. Using Nylocks on power cables..... really! Having to have 12V power to open doors..... yes no wonder you got sued!
« Last Edit: September 15, 2020, 01:52:28 PM by Bikerzz » Logged

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